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beard66 
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Location: southern il
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 Topic: 200 moves in neutral
Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 9:32pm |
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Hello everyone, I recently purchased an early 72 model 200. It has a bush hog 2846qt loader with 7' quick attach bucket. Has good rubber on it and the tach only shows 2500 hours, and it is in really good original condition.
I am new to the three digit tractors but not to AC tractors, this will be my third orange one in the shed. My question is, if you leave the gear shifter in gear with the clutch released, and the power director is in the neutral position the tractor should not move, correct?
I attempted this the other day and the tractor still moved when the power director was in the neutral position. I was mostly just seeing if it would move or not, I always put the gear shifter in neutral when I dismount the tractor just to be on the safe side. If this is not normal, what do any of you think the problem could be?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 9:39pm |
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When hydraulic oil is COLD, there will always be creeping of some kind when in neutral. It will be worse in 1st gear and least noticeable in 4th gear. There could be something wrong, but I doubt it. Be more concerned about SLIPPING in low or high range than creeping in neutral.
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Hurst
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Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 9:39pm |
Do you mean it is moving like the power director is fully engaged, or it just creeps along? Creep is normal, especially with colder temperatures because it is a wet clutch setup and the thick oil will drag more. If it acts like it is completely engaged, then I would start with checking the pressures at the valve and then dig into the clutch if all the pressures look good. If you get to that point, an Allis service manual (not the aftermarket ones, but an original Allis shop manual) will be your best friend!
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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beard66
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Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 9:56pm |
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When I tried it, I had been driving it from one piece of the farm to another but the oil probably wasn't warmed up very much yet. I tried it with the tractor in 1st gear and it actually seemed more to me like it was still locked in low range. Granted I didn't have any load on it at the time. Will try it again after running it for a longer period of time and see if it persists. Thanks for the input so far guys!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 9:58pm |
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Normal operating temps for the hydraulic oil would be above 140 degrees. You'll never get it that warm this time of the year.
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JohnCO
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Posted: 10 Jan 2015 at 11:47pm |
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If you step on the brake is should stop or if it is on a slight incline it shouldn't creep unless it is something more serious then cold oil.
Edited by JohnCO - 10 Jan 2015 at 11:49pm
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Riggs/Ia
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Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 1:28pm |
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Our 190XT ser. III and 185 does that. We have no problems with it.
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C,unstyled WC,185,190XTSer3,D21SerII,210,220,8070 AC guys are like the Marines, The few and the proud!
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Farmer1782178
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Posted: 14 Jan 2015 at 10:45pm |
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I also have a d15 that does this,however it will still creep a little when the pd is in neutral and the tractor is in neutral. One thing to note is we put 90 weight gear oil in the rear end because that's what it had in it. Should we have put hydraulic fluid instead? I mean it is bad enough in first gear with the pd out of gear that brand new breaks will barely(if it will) hold it back
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 6:19am |
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If you read my post above, I say CREEPING will be worse in 1st gear than 4th gear. THIS APPLIES TO A D-15 TOO.
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Farmer1782178
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 9:00am |
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Yes sir, but I've road hundreds of tractors in my lifetime and this is the first one that would ever creep when everything is in neutral.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 10:52am |
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Get the 80/90 wt out of the transmission.....viscous drag. Better yet, just tear the transmission apart and make sure everything is OK.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 4:51pm |
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Yes, that oil is way too thick for the transmission.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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waltw
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 6:18pm |
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Took a man who I thought had drove a 185 before to move the tractor. I went on back to field. I waited and waited finally went back to is what had happened. He had in first gear full throttle with pd in neutral. He had gone about a half of a mile.
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Farmer1782178
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 9:23pm |
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Alright, just curious as I am not near the tractor nor do I have my manual but aren't the rear end and transmission together and the pd separate? The pd smells like it has hydraulic fluid in it and the rear end I know has gear oil and we put gear oil back in it because it had gear oil in it before but if it needs hydraulic oil in it I'll put hydraulic oil in it too. And I understand the tractor will have creep with the power director in neutral but the transmission in 1-4. But this one has some when the transmission and power director are in neutral.( y'all may have understood this already but wanted to elaborate)
Edited by Farmer1782178 - 15 Jan 2015 at 9:25pm
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tbran
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Posted: 15 Jan 2015 at 10:21pm |
ok the power director will be spinning in neutral due to viscous drag on clutches, this spins the 4th gear input shaft. The 4th gear input shaft has a cavity with a roller bearing that accepts the nose of the pinion shaft. All these units have oil splashing
and coating the bearings and parts. IF it is a drag that lowers engine RPM, as Doc sez you have a tranny issue that may or may not cause an immediate problem, but will not get better with use. The correct hyd oil is a very low viscosity - 821XL or universal trans / hyd oil.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Jan 2015 at 6:21am |
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D-15's have the input shaft all the way across the top and the spinning gears and bushings on the output (pinion) shaft on the bottom. When you are in neutral, that 4th gear is spinning like crazy (faster than engine speed...49 teeth driving 24 teeth)trying to drag the pinion shaft along with it. The heavier and COLDER the oil and the faster the engine is running, the more it will do this. I know it's possible. I grew up on a D-15 in cold weather country.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 17 Jan 2015 at 12:06am |
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Both the power director and transmission use the same oil: universal hydraulic oil. NOT gear oil.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Farmer1782178
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Posted: 17 Jan 2015 at 11:24pm |
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I know this is the wrong place in the forum to ask it but is a series one d15 with a narrow front pretty rare? I mean I have seen very very few pics of them. I'm buying it for 600$ and probably have 250$ in parts but it's running one good rear tire one decent rear tire new fronts, after market 3 pt, decent sheet metal new manifold muffler, good hydraulics. How'd i do?
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Bob D. (La)
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Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 5:05am |
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I wouldn't consider it rare, as such, but you stole it. Go straight to jail. Congratulations.
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When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!
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smitty78
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Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 10:46am |
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I recently purchased a poorly maintained Allis 200 (SN prior 4001) and it won't move forward or reverse in Power Shift Low range but seems fine in high range. Changing all fluids, then will check pressures on the PS valve.
My question deals with hydraulic fluid and gear oil.
The final drives had gear oil, and I will replace with gear oil. Does anyone suggest changing to trans/hyd fluid in the final drives ? And, I suspect the final drive lube is segregated from the hydraulic system, correct ?
Also, are all hydraulic functions refilled and level checked from the dipstick under the platform in front of the seat, or is there a second refill station somewhere else ?
I have parts, owners, and service manuals but their verbiage is a bit confusing. Takes an especially tedious person to write service manuals, lol.
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Dan73
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Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 11:00am |
 Farmer1782178 wrote:
Yes sir, but I've road hundreds of tractors in my lifetime and this is the first one that would ever creep when everything is in neutral. |
Everything is not in neutral if you put the trans in neutral it will not creep. The hydraulic clutch pack is in between it's two ranges that is different then gears in neutral.
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