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1953 Allis Chalmers model CA? |
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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I inherited what was believed by my wife's grandfather (deceased) to be a 1949 AC model B. After getting the tractor home and researching the serial number I believe it's a 1953 model CA. (CA25213). I got the tractor with all the sweeps etc, planter, disk, double plow, side dresser the works. It hasn't been ran in 3 years so from the top I drain the old fuel, cleaned the bowl, replaced the battery, and cleaned the points. The tractor will not start by battery or by hand. The new battery won't even get one revolution out of the starter. I took the starter contact apart today and cleaned it up and put it back together. Some better but still not turning over completely. The tractor isn't locked up as I can turn the engine by hand. I'm also not getting power to the coil during ignition process. Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks. Btw yes it's still original 6 volt.
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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![]() ![]() Edited by Countryboy92 - 22 Apr 2021 at 11:46pm |
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DaveSB ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Aug 2012 Location: mocksville, nc Points: 243 |
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Wow, that’s a nice solid looking old CA to inherit.
They are great tractors. As far as getting it running, I’d try to repair the starter first, remember to clean all cable connections to bright and shiny, might even be a good idea to replace cables. You can remove the starter with one bolt after disconnecting the wiring to it, make sure the starter is getting a good ground and the inside of the starter hole and bolt and housing is clean. Could also pop off rear cover and check brushes, but at least clean the grounding areas. You didn’t say whether distributor or magneto, but sounded like a distributor, if distributor and coil isn’t getting any power, probably in the wiring or switch, also remember on 6 volts if points closed there may not be but a couple volts there, not 6. You can run a jumper to coil from negative side of battery to side of coil not connected to distributor, if it’s still 6 volt negative ground. Then you can try to crank it like this or repair wiring to it. And recheck spark. If Magneto ignition, the one wire to it either sends ground or ungrounds it , unground it to run. After a few years of sitting you will probably have to remove carb and clean it out real good or rebuild it, you can usually just clean them real good to start if you just want to hear it run, and check gas flow through carb by removing plug in bottom of carb and making sure it runs a nice steady amount through it for 30 seconds or so. You could put some oil, not much in each cylinder to help lubricate things and build compression. Remember once you get spark and fuel, and compression to it you could pull it off with another tractor or truck, sometimes they need that the first time you get them back running especially if you can’t get the starter working any better than it is now without sending it out for a rebuild. I’m sure you put new gas in it too, and inspect oil for condition and for coolant In it. Try a couple of these things and check back with us, a CA is a great tractor and you have several pieces of equipment with it a huge bonus. Good luck with it |
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1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14
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DaveSB ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Aug 2012 Location: mocksville, nc Points: 243 |
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I meant if still 6 volt positive ground when talking about the jumper wire, oops
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1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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I definitely appreciate all of the useful information. I did clean some connections yesterday including the starter housing and casing but haven't had time to finish a complete ground check and such, but will be very soon. Turning the motor by hand it has great compression and when I picked it up after setting since 2018 all 4 tires were still pumped up and rolled right on the trailer so I was happy about that. 😆. Does anyone happen to have a pdf for the operators manual? I picked up a service manual locally. Again thanks for all advice and suggestions!
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Trinity45 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Mar 2014 Location: Kentucky Points: 1861 |
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Both my 53 CA's are distributor,
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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you could jumper a wire to the coil as mentioned. If you can get the plugs to spark and have fuel.... you could pull start it...... YES, it is hard to determine if the starter or the cables are the problem. All you can do is clean all the terminals, good ground, good battery, to help determine that the starter is the problem... Things do turn slow on a 6 volt system.. You may consider changing to 12 battery... not a major problem.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DSeries4 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7468 |
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Operator's manuals can be found cheap on e-bay. I just bought one a few days ago. Nice looking tractor you got there!
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Brian G. NY ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2259 |
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Great looking tractor.....way more tractor than a "B"! Is that a grader blade that has been somehow affixed to the cultivators? If so, that is quite innovative!
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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Yes that is indeed a grader blade that he made and attached. He was always tinkering and coming up with something. I am spending some quality time with kids before having to start back on 3rd shift, so I will try these things as soon as I get a chance.
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wjohn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: KS Points: 2184 |
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That one's way nicer than the '52 CA I just dragged home. Keep us updated as you get time to work on it.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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Ok fellas, I have removed the starter and cleaned the surface area of any rust. Also I cleaned all of the wiring contacts, the starter contact etc. Had to charge the battery (new battery dead after sitting 3 days). With the starter removed I tested it and it would turn over no problem. Put it all back together and it will still only try to turn about a 1/2 revolution. Again I can turn the engine over with no issue with the hand crank. Any ideas as to what the issue may be? 🤔
Thanks in advance. |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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you listed the basics... Clean all the battery and starter cable ends.. Look for corrosion INSIDE the cable end. Clean battery terminals, and ground points.
Why was the battery dead after 3 days ? Question the battery condition ? ( 6 volt?) Do you have a starter push switch on the starter body ? Did you remove and clean inside contacts ? Have you tried another battery ( truck) jumpered straight to the starter terminal and the ground bolt ?
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Apr 2021 at 9:14am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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I have cleaned everything that could possibly have any corrosion. Yes it's 6 volt. I put a brand new 6 volt battery in it when I got it last week. So addressing the dead battery is my next step for sure. It is push button/ lever style starter, and yes I did remove it and clean contact points there also. I have not straight jumped it yet, but I have tried turning it over while having the battery charger hooked up supplementing the battery. I know, im scratching my head too. I do assure you it's probably something simple that I'll laugh at later once figured out. Thanks for the reply Steve!
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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Does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram? Also the headlight/ charge switch is stuck in the out position. I don't know if that matters.
Also Steve I just read my reply and want to say I wasn't trying to come off any kind of way. I was just trying to run down the trouble shooting list you posted. So my apologies if I came across like that, that was not the case at all. I appreciate any and all help! Edited by Countryboy92 - 27 Apr 2021 at 9:36am |
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Dusty MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5058 |
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Hook a volt meter to the battery, and watch it while trying to stating the tractor. Then hook the meter to starter and try to start tractor. How many volts drop at each point?
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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no apology needy Anthony. I had the same feeling.. Didnt want you to think i was calling you dumb by repeating to clean the terminals... But as you said, it is something SIMPLE... All you get is a couple cables, the switch, battery and starter... Dead battery makes me question its condition.. Also possible that the starter is "WEAK" after 60 years..
One thing to remember is you can jumper it with 12 volts for a test.. Take the cable off the starter switch and cover it... Jumper a 12 volt battery to the switch and tractor ground. You can still use the 6 volt battery to power to coil /ignition system. The switch being "broke" might be draining the battery to ground ? You can always take the "A" wire off the generator until you get the tractor running good.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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your wiring should look something like this...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11965 |
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Just because the Battery is new, doesn't mean its good. 6V Batteries aren't popular, so they sit for long periods of time. In that time, (depending on how many months) it could start to sulfate and dead short itself internally. Best way to check that is put a slow charge into the Battery for a couple hours. Take the charger off, let it set for 10 minutes or so, and then pull a draw test on it if you have a draw tester. If you don't, the local gas station guy can pull a draw test on it for you. That will tell you if the Battery is ready for service or its shorted internally. Always check your power source first, then move onto connections, cables, and then the Starter. If you have a local rebuilder in town, bring the Starter in and have him load test it. Wouldn't surprise me if it going to need some attention. Especially if its been in service for many years without any refurbishing. HTH
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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wekracer ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Tebbetts, MO Points: 1587 |
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One other thing to consider is cable size. From what I understand it needs to be 1/0 copper. Parts stores replacement cables are typically #2 and will have excessive voltage drop
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IBWD MIke ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 4017 |
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Steve has great cables if you need new ones.
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J&J ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 24 Apr 2021 Location: IN Points: 18 |
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I had the same issue, had a good battery, went through the starter replaced the brushes and still it would barely turn the motor over. I filed material off of the battery cable terminals so the bolt could crimp tighter to the battery and it fired right up.
Correction: I filed material from the cable clamp, so it could clamp tighter to the battery terminals. Edited by J&J - 30 Apr 2021 at 10:42am |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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good point on the battery terminals... also "clean" can mean wiping them off with a rag... There can be surface corrosion that acts as an insulator on the terminals and the cable clamps ... running over them with a wire brush a piece of 60 grit sand paper can get to CLEAN METAL.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Countryboy92 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2017 Location: North Carolina Points: 32 |
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UPDATE!!.....
Over the past few mornings after getting in from work I started over at square one. I rechecked all connections, cables, etc. Everything was in order but still the starter would only try to spin. So this morning on my way home I stopped and bought a set of Delco brushes for the starter. I took it apart and it was dirty and rusted. After about an hour of TLC and a set of new brushes the starter was turning as it should but I still had no ignition/crank. I then rechecked my rotor cap/points and wouldn't you know I had over looked a tiny layer of rust on the "button" in the top of the cap. I hit it with some emery cloth and reinstalled. The next time I pulled the starter plunger the tractor started on the second revolution and purred like a kitten. So again gentlemen, I truly appreciate all of the tips and advice!! |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86771 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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