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1951 WD

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wjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 9:36pm
Thanks Mike. I was looking at either that or the 680 so good to hear a vote in that direction. To be fair I can't imagine which compound matters too much for this shaft. It's not like it's a PTO shaft or something that's spinning really fast with a load. I was probably overthinking it.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2022 at 7:31pm
680 loctite (Green) is a cylindrical part bonding agent, that can lock up to a .015 gap.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 11:43pm
I was able to get green sleeve retainer locally so I ended up using that. Says it's good for up to .007" which ought to be in this case.

I'm getting ready to put the LH frame rail back on. Anyone know how these get bent up like this, just behind the front pedestal on the bottom side? Both frame rails of this tractor were like this. I think sugarmaker had a tractor like this in one of his threads, too. Didn't have high hopes I'd be able to do much but whomping on it with a 3 lb. hammer actually does work. I left some dents but those will only be visible from underneath. Good enough for a working tractor.




1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 7:09am
I don't know how people, (always the previous owner) bend stuff like that! Seen many things I thought were indestructible bent up pretty good. Couple of WD lift arms come to mind, how do you bend those?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 7:13am
When you slide the grab hook end of a chain under there, you can get that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 7:31am
Looks like it straightened out okay. Good as new!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

When you slide the grab hook end of a chain under there, you can get that.

This has to be it. Someone must have tightened binders or whatever way too much when tying down to a trailer. Hadn't thought of that but that's the only thing that makes sense since it was bent downwards. Thanks!
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2022 at 8:34am
John,
Really glad your making progress on the old WD! Frame looks way better. Yea I had one with a good bend in it too. Plus a bent rear lift arm. Some folks can bust a sledge.
A little heat on that might have brought it along quicker?
Frame rails going on. Nice to get things back together!
Regards,
Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2022 at 10:43pm
Chris, I remember you saying in your thread that you used a torch. I finally got a stick welder and a drill press this year... Torch and bench grinder are next on the list. I don't quite have a full service shop here yet!
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2022 at 11:13pm
I've been chipping away at the starter between other projects and got it buttoned up last weekend - mostly needed new brushes and some commutator cleanup. I replaced the bushings as well although they weren't terrible.



Getting the new retaining washer into the gear shift lever stumped me for a few minutes before I realized that the outer edge of the old washer was still stuck in there. I wrongly assumed the whole thing was missing or rusted away when I was able to pull the shift lever right out of the tower. Then the new one went in easily.



Also, the gear shift boot I bought new from AGCO a year or so ago, and had stored out of sunlight in my shop, has a crack starting in it already. Seems like there is no good source for these, sadly. Hopefully this tractor won't be sitting outside but you never know when you'll get rained on. I used a little tire bead lube on the shifter and the boot was pretty easy to install.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2022 at 2:00pm
.

You might try spraying the rubber part after installation with paint to protect against UV. Imperfect protection, but better than none.

Grease on the inside may also protect against ozone creaking too.

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 11:01pm
I've been cleaning up the head. Has anyone seen this much flash inside the water passages on your heads? It surprised me.



I pressed the new guides in after cleaning the bores. Just pay attention to the specs for setting the depth in the service manual.



I had a holdup with the old Sioux seat grinder when I started on the seats. The bearings in all of the stone holders were done for, so I had to order replacement bearings and wait on them. Should be good to go again now. I'm still learning how to do seats. I've only done one small engine and those seats were just in the cast iron of the cylinder. Worst case I guess I have to take the head in to have a seat replaced if I mess one up or can't clean it up with enough meat left in it.


1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 6:42am
Last I knew distilled water was about $i.00 a gallon so I used that along with antifreeze, water in this area has lime and iron in it.
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Dusty MI Dusty MI wrote:

Last I knew distilled water was about $i.00 a gallon so I used that along with antifreeze, water in this area has lime and iron in it.

I always use distilled water when mixing antifreeze. Back in FFA we restored a JD A that looked like it must have had pond water dumped inside of it. Like you pointed out, distilled is so cheap that there's no reason not to keep some on hand.

This tractor wasn't too bad inside the cooling system. I just thought all that casting flash inside was odd.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2022 at 11:21pm
I started cleaning up the inside of the block tonight and didn't get far. The cylinder sleeve o-ring sealing areas in the block are awful. I measured and compared to the groove locations in the new sleeves, and the lower o-ring should seal fine on all of them, but the upper won't seal on at least 2 of them. They're pretty eroded away and as damaged as these are I don't think I'd trust any type of sealer/epoxy.

I'll be doing some thinking about this. I think my options are to have a machine shop sleeve the block or find a replacement block... Anything else I'm missing?




1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack(Ky) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 7:32am
I bought a WD the other day and the distributor lays down instead of being straight up. It's a 50 model. What's the deal with that?
'59 D14 '68 170 Diesel '81 7020 40 All Crop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 7:37am
I wouldn't lose one minutes sleep over that. Where I live, there would be no problem finding a better block for your engine for not much money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Jack(Ky) Jack(Ky) wrote:

I bought a WD the other day and the distributor lays down instead of being straight up. It's a 50 model. What's the deal with that?

Jack,
Welcome! You may want to begin your own thread on your tractor project too? The lay down version may be a distributor from a International tractor? I had one like that on one of my uncles WD's too. It had worked fine for a long time. 

Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 8:27am
John,
My brain is not working today. Upper seals? Remind me or take a picture or two of the area your concerned about? I was thinking there was just the seal on the bottom of the sleeve?
If you dont have cracks in the block in the lower web area you may be able to clean up the seal areas??

On another area: Might be a good time to remove the shift tower and check for wear areas, and possible needed repairs on shift folks etc?? Just sayin....

Your doing great! Keep at it. It will preform like a new old tractor!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Sep 2022 at 8:30am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

I wouldn't lose one minutes sleep over that. Where I live, there would be no problem finding a better block for your engine for not much money.

Thanks. I will start keeping an eye out for a block.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 9:32pm
Chris,

Here's a picture of one of the old sleeves. You can see the two o-rings I'm talking about lower down on the sleeve. They both seal against the ugly looking area in the lower part of my block. The new sleeves are similar but still nicely sealed up in the factory bags, so I'm leaving them alone until I'm ready to put the engine together.



I did have the shifter off a page or so back. Mostly the retainer for the shift lever was rusted away to nothing. There is some slop, but nothing seemed too terribly worn so I put it back together with a new retainer and boot.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 5:48pm
If that crusty stuff is on the top side of the bore, I would scrape it off and polish it up. There should be a chamfer, to lead in the o-rings on the top of the bore. That area can get real crusty from the coolant, and sediment settling in above the top o-ring.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by CTuckerNWIL CTuckerNWIL wrote:

If that crusty stuff is on the top side of the bore, I would scrape it off and polish it up. There should be a chamfer, to lead in the o-rings on the top of the bore. That area can get real crusty from the coolant, and sediment settling in above the top o-ring.

There is still crusty stuff I could further remove, but it is eroded well below where the top o-ring would sit. Even in the same bore, you can see spots where the original machined surface is still intact up high, and right next to it will be a spot that is completely corroded away. The lines that look like cracks are corroded well into the machined surface.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2022 at 7:14am
John,
 Sorry I was not up to speed on the shifter. Hate to see you have to get another block. But that may be the answer. I had to do that on my WD45 due to cracks. 
The danger is another block can have its own issues too. 
Just a wild thought but could JB weld fill in the voids and be sanded smooth?? I know that is kind of a bandaid for sure. Could work??
Keep at it!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD User Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2022 at 10:09am
On the rear seal, Lucas Oil Products maks a oil addative that is supposed to swell the seals and might help. Another thing you can try is to use it and you might get lucky and have the seal somewhat seal back up. I have a 1952 WD that had the same thing. Also, the points system on the right side is aftermarket, don't know if you really care about it. I have a 1951 WD parts tractor that has the same thing and I've been told that that the points sytems are a lot easier to work on than the orginal magento. 
1951 Allis WD 1952 Allis WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2022 at 11:28am
A WD has a felt seal. Don't think you can add anything to make it swell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2022 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

John,
 Sorry I was not up to speed on the shifter. Hate to see you have to get another block. But that may be the answer. I had to do that on my WD45 due to cracks. 
The danger is another block can have its own issues too. 
Just a wild thought but could JB weld fill in the voids and be sanded smooth?? I know that is kind of a bandaid for sure. Could work??
Keep at it!
Regards,
 Chris

Chris, I've run into suggestions for JB Weld, Belzona, etc. online, but usually for filling pits and such. I pretty well gave up on that idea since I have the whole top 1/4-1/3 of the area flaked away. I don't think it would hold up at all like that. Filling in smaller pits with a generally solid surface around it, I think it would be fine. No cheap date here, I don't think! Like you said, getting another block means more inspections and chances for missing things, too.

Here are some better pics after I took a welding chipping hammer and light tapped on the flaky stuff... Disappointing for sure, especially with no cracks to be found in this block.




1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2022 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by WD User WD User wrote:

On the rear seal, Lucas Oil Products maks a oil addative that is supposed to swell the seals and might help. Another thing you can try is to use it and you might get lucky and have the seal somewhat seal back up. I have a 1952 WD that had the same thing. Also, the points system on the right side is aftermarket, don't know if you really care about it. I have a 1951 WD parts tractor that has the same thing and I've been told that that the points sytems are a lot easier to work on than the orginal magento. 

Howdy! Like Steve said, I don't think anything would've been able to make this seal swell. It's getting a whole new gasket/seal set now anyhow.

I believe the distributor is actually not aftermarket, but OEM (Delco?) from Allis-Chalmers. This tractor would've originally had a magneto as did all WDs before serial number 136318, but someone appears to have swapped in a replacement distributor drive housing and everything from a newer tractor, or bought all the new service parts for the swap back in the day when they were still available.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 7:01am
wjohn, I think a good used block is in order. If you were to repair that one, Belzona would probably outlast the rest of the tractor. Problem is, you would need to apply it then re-bore the cylinders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2022 at 7:29am
John,
Just another long shot. very long shot! What about spray weld, or spray metal? Yes would then have to be rebored. The shop I have do do engine work has the capibility. But would not be close by.
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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