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AC WD45 
Orange Level
Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Location: Mid Michigan
Points: 1993
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 Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 10:09pm |
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spend 15 years of your childhood in a 1066, and 5 years of that time driving one and you learn to love it . The 4020, I'll stand firm on what I said though. It did love it's uel, but it would pull a 7 shank at 6" and not even know it was there in the black dirt here in MI. That A/C in the cab beats the heck out of the year around on my neighbors 185 any day lol
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German Shepherd dad
1957 Allis Chalmers WD45
#WD234847
1951 Allis Chalmers WD
#WD88193
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MikeB (SD)
Silver Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: NE South Dakota
Points: 80
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Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 11:38pm |
Some great points being made. Ps I love the Ford 8000 the 16 speed dual power had the Allis guys over a barrel in 1969 but I still won't back down power wise if AC would have taken the Series III or 200 back to Nebraska in those days it would have made 103-106 horsepower. Ask you local dealers serviceman if they ever seen one dyno less than a 100 horse when new.
Back to 4020 vs Xt190, Ac always bragged about the huge platform and it was nice but the 4020 was easier to exit or climb on to from the left and right side of the tractor, in fact the factory cabbed One-Ninety's you only got on and off from the left side. Ironically John Deere found it unimportant also when they released the Soundgard cabs
on the Generation II tractors.
I can't believe no one has mentioned the John Deere propriatery hydraulic couplers instead of the industry standard Pioneer/ISO couplers A-C, Case, Oliver, etc used.
And of course every Deere dealer had the conversion kit laying their on the counter for you. "That will be $150 plus tax thank you" LOL! Here's your sausage! Deere was not alone in this as IH pulled this stunt also.
Both our 4020 and XT190 were ether eaters. We bought those cans by the cases. My IH friends always poke fun of how hard the 404 JD's were to start, in our case the XT was even worse.
How about the reverse speed the One-Ninety had two choices slow and slower, always prefered the 4020 when stacking round bales they actually had a hidden (not marked) high speed reverse gear. The flip side of this is the big 3-point mounted snow blowers the 4020 would snuff out or you would start smelling clutch cleaning out after a three day Dakota blizzard where as the XT would walk right through the drifts and you could always neutral the power director for the four foot and higher ones.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 12:14am |
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The 4010 had that third reverse gear and except for a lock out both could have had a reverse gear good for 15 to 16 mph in the fourth range. The third (and pretty fast) reverse in the 4020 was supposed to be locked out by the linkage and interlocks in the dash run by the single gear shift lever that actually shifted essentially two transmissions in one but two separate shifters with one handle. It was possible to modify the 4020 to have the third reverse, but it was somewhat troublesome in the 4010 breaking gears from not being quite strong enough.
Gerald J.
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Lonn
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29773
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 6:22am |
 MikeB (SD) wrote:
Some great points being made. Ps I love the Ford 8000 the 16 speed dual power had the Allis guys over a barrel in 1969 but I still won't back down power wise if AC would have taken the Series III or 200 back to Nebraska in those days it would have made 103-106 horsepower. Ask you local dealers serviceman if they ever seen one dyno less than a 100 horse when new.
Back to 4020 vs Xt190, Ac always bragged about the huge platform and it was nice but the 4020 was easier to exit or climb on to from the left and right side of the tractor, in fact the factory cabbed One-Ninety's you only got on and off from the left side. Ironically John Deere found it unimportant also when they released the Soundgard cabs
on the Generation II tractors.
I can't believe no one has mentioned the John Deere propriatery hydraulic couplers instead of the industry standard Pioneer/ISO couplers A-C, Case, Oliver, etc used.
And of course every Deere dealer had the conversion kit laying their on the counter for you. "That will be $150 plus tax thank you" LOL! Here's your sausage! Deere was not alone in this as IH pulled this stunt also.
Both our 4020 and XT190 were ether eaters. We bought those cans by the cases. My IH friends always poke fun of how hard the 404 JD's were to start, in our case the XT was even worse.
How about the reverse speed the One-Ninety had two choices slow and slower, always prefered the 4020 when stacking round bales they actually had a hidden (not marked) high speed reverse gear. The flip side of this is the big 3-point mounted snow blowers the 4020 would snuff out or you would start smelling clutch cleaning out after a three day Dakota blizzard where as the XT would walk right through the drifts and you could always neutral the power director for the four foot and higher ones. |
I do have a soft spot for those old Fords. Had one apart in mechanics school. I think it was a 7000 or 8000. Whatever is was it was built pretty decent and it had 4 pinion final drives. Everyone one else had 3.
At the Allis dealer I worked at, there was a mechanic that I got to know real well that started there when the 200 was new and he said he never dynoed a 200 that was under 110 HP right from the factory except one that slipped by quality control during the mad rush for tractors. That 200 had a 185 pump installed and dynoed at less than 90 HP but it was quickly replaced before it left the dealership.
If I remember right Case had a coupler all it's own too. The Deere couplers are a pain with those stupid popet valves and special tools needed to work on them.
Our neighbor was all Deere and in the winter time for a couple year he would borrow Dad's Allis to haul manure cause his 4020 and 4430 wouldn't start in the winter. This was back in the 70's. They ended up buying a new 7040 PS for that task but his boys hated Allis and would just beat on that tractor. As a kid I used to ride with in the 7040 sometimes and it could be scary at times. They smashed the grill and radiator by the time they went broke and had to sell out but that tractor is still in the area and still going.
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indiana2door
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Points: 41
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 8:53am |
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The 4020 is one of the most successful and popular tractors out there. I bleed red and a little orange but I would never give up my 4020. No one including AC has nothing to compare to a 4020!
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29773
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 9:08am |
indiana2door wrote:
The 4020 is one of the most successful and popular tractors out there. I bleed red and a little orange but I would never give up my 4020. No one including AC has nothing to compare to a 4020!
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To each his own.
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Butch(OH)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lucerne Ohio
Points: 3829
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 9:15am |
The fact that Deere outsold everybody else by a wide margin says a bit about the 4020. I have run them, and a 190 and a 856 and the 1855 Ollie and they all have their quirks. The posters who talked about Allis and thier gear problems have it about right IMO. We had a series 3 XT and by that time the problems had been solved,, but the reputaion was also set in stone for all but the diehard orange people.
We had a neighbor who could bleed green with the best of 'em and of course he owned a 4020 diesel. Same day the dealer unloaded our 190XT he came sliding in the driveway with his 4020 and yelled, DID THEY SEND YOU EXTRA TRANNY GEARS?!! LOL LOL. Later that spring we just finished up plowing and he was opening up his last field right across the fence so we did the neighboring thing and went over to help him finish up. I stopped at the end waiting on him and he stopped and said Ill go out front so you dont slow me down, LOL LOL. Well as anyone who had ever done same knows we crawled up his tail wheel for two rounds and he finaly let me by, both pulling 5-16 plows. When we were done he says, how many HP is that tractor? I thought it was the same as my 4020? I told him 92 HP, he said BS! I said look it up. Like all the other late ones ours was closer to 120 HP but he didnt know that. Next day I saw the dealer loading his 4020 on the rollback. He had called them to fix a low power problem, I never did have the heart to tell him differant.
Just posted this the other day but our series three when it was a few years old, and me before all my clothes shrank and Betsy gave me grey hair.
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John (C-IL)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Points: 1654
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 9:35am |
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Hey Butch, looks like supper will be ready shortly.
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Steve M C/IL
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Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: shelbyville IL
Points: 691
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 10:22am |
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Not much has been said about the diff lock on the 4020's.Most around here had it.Much of Illinois north of RT 16 is black dirt and got fall plowed.Plowing wet black dirt practically required a diff lock and I believe that had a lot to do with Deere's popularity.Real hp and economy wasn't much consolation if you had to ride the brake and yank the lift.Chiseling wet timber soil with the 220 sucks too. The 8070 with cab and diff lock is much nicer to run.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 10:42am |
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Lots of 4020 diesel got turned up too, but I don't think they were normally delivered that way. M&W made a turbo kit that was fairly popular too.
There were two different sets of hydraulics so different between the early and the late (side console) 4020 that they have separate parts catalogs and shop manuals. The later version moved the valve to out back right by the couplers and added the easily adjusted rabbit/turtle flow rate. Before that the valve was on the engine side of the fire wall and used poppet valves with the flow rate adjusted by a hidden set screw, typically set for 5 GPM. The late 4020 design was used for decades, at least by the external appearance.
Early 4020 had a vane pump to extract fumes from the crankcase that later 4020 didn't. That pump has been known to die a screeching death.
Gerald J.
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Eric[IL]
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Points: 485
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 10:52am |
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Sounds like the series III had all the bugs worked out of it. You know - it is pretty amazing that AC got 120hp out of a 301 cubed engine. Did the series III 190xt have both the turbo & intercooler installed or was it just turboed? Over years of service, would that engine continue to perform without issues at that level?
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Eldon (WA)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Points: 7765
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 10:53am |
I read that this 8' Northwest tiller would take all of 100hp to pull...last fall I was tilling up cornstalks and something didn't feel right. I looked back and blue smoke was coming off the belts. Tractor wasn't even lugging down....
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ALLIS EXPRESS!
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Eldon (WA)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 10:57am |
Eric[IL wrote:
]Sounds like the series III had all the bugs worked out of it. You know - it is pretty amazing that AC got 120hp out of a 301 cubed engine. Did the series III 190xt have both the turbo & intercooler installed or was it just turboed? Over years of service, would that engine continue to perform without issues at that level? |
Just a turbo. What amazes me is people with the 4 cylinder version (200 cid) in the 6080 that are reporting 100+ hp!
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ALLIS EXPRESS!
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Lonn
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 11:02am |
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Unless a person spent the money on the turbo for a 4020, the 4020 is pretty limited on what kind of hp you could get out of it compared to a 190. That's why a lot of 190's died because of pushing 150 hp through a 100 hp power train. The 4020 then would have cooling problems when farmers added turbos so M&W offered a finned oil pan to try to help but they still were a problem. Probably why there weren't to many done that way except for pullers. I'd never run a 190 at over 115 or 120. I'd prefer no more than 110 hp. Even so the 301 engines seem to preform well at those high horse power rating.
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ACscott
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Location: ont
Points: 228
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 11:05am |
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I think almost everyone will agree the 4020 was a good tractor but the one ninety is every bit as good. If you leave the one ninety at stock settings they are a very good tractor.
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Butch(OH)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lucerne Ohio
Points: 3829
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 11:13am |
Eric[IL wrote:
] You know - it is pretty amazing that AC got 120hp out of a 301 cubed engine. Did the series III 190xt have both the turbo & intercooler installed or was it just turboed? |
Ours was one of the last XT Diesels, the model 200 was on the dealers lot. Ours was not intercooled, I dont believe any of them were. Even though ours was one of the last we had it at the farm only about long enough to get used to it being there and the dealer called to say they needed it at the shop for an upgrade to something. I knew the mechanic well enough that I called him and said while you have it there turn it up to 120 or so, he said they are all 115-120 but he would check it. Sure enough it came back with the pump still sealed and a note that it was right at 120 HP on the dyno. The 190 wasnt the only A-C out produce it's nameplate. A friends family had a 220 and when they thought they needed a new tractor they got a 7050 and were darned dissapointed that it wouldnt out work the old 220. Come to find out they had owned a 150 HP tractor all along and didnt know it, the 7050 was up to spec.
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TexasAllis
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Texas
Points: 396
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 11:53am |
Butch(OH) wrote:
Eric[IL wrote:
] You know - it is pretty amazing that AC got 120hp out of a 301 cubed engine. Did the series III 190xt have both the turbo & intercooler installed or was it just turboed? |
Ours was one of the last XT Diesels, the model 200 was on the dealers lot. Ours was not intercooled, I dont believe any of them were. Even though ours was one of the last we had it at the farm only about long enough to get used to it being there and the dealer called to say they needed it at the shop for an upgrade to something. I knew the mechanic well enough that I called him and said while you have it there turn it up to 120 or so, he said they are all 115-120 but he would check it. Sure enough it came back with the pump still sealed and a note that it was right at 120 HP on the dyno. The 190 wasnt the only A-C out produce it's nameplate. A friends family had a 220 and when they thought they needed a new tractor they got a 7050 and were darned dissapointed that it wouldnt out work the old 220. Come to find out they had owned a 150 HP tractor all along and didnt know it, the 7050 was up to spec.
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My dad ran a Allis dealership when I was a kid. One day I was in the shop and they had just put a new fuel pump on a 185 and had it hooked up to the Dyno. If memory serves it Dynoed around 96-97 HP. I knew the rated HP of a 185 so I asked him if it was supposed to do that. His answer was he never once Dynoed a well running Allis that did not run higher HP than the factory rating.
Edited by TexasAllis - 16 Mar 2011 at 11:53am
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Eric[IL]
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 2:38pm |
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Everyones engine comments are fascinating to learn. The AC cross flow engine heads must have been the correct configuration - Cool air on one side, hot air on the other side? ACs got an excellent engine design for their diesel tractor series.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 3:11pm |
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With a cross flow head, there's more room for bigger passages, both in and out. I suspect that's more benefit than cool on one side and hot on the other.
Gerald J.
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ORANGE JUICE
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Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Location: BowlingGreen,KY
Points: 35
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 7:58pm |
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I wouldn't care if I had 3 flat tires on a 190XT I would rather drive it than a 4020. But I have a serious Orange addiction that I probably need help with. It's all about loyalty for me. Diesel prices now might make greenies plow after dark so their buddies won't see them on a 190.
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