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190xt Power director pressure

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2wise4agm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 190xt Power director pressure
    Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 11:50am
My 190xt's power director will slip in high side under heavy load.  I checked pressures this morning, and have 320psi in both high and low. The strange thing is my manual says I should have 60psi in neutral, and I have 210-220.  Can anyone tell me what that means?
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DougG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 12:48pm
I got the same problem on a 200 - no neutral ; just looking for a cause for the problem before i tear into it!! I am thinking broken PD clutch discs but want to know for sure

Edited by DougG - 04 Feb 2012 at 12:49pm
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2wise4agm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 12:54pm
I still have neutral.  I just want to make sure I dont have another problem before I tear into the clutch discs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 2:32pm
Where are you measuring your pressure?????? there are TWO 1/8" pipe plugs for two gauges on the side of the valve ...one for LOW and one for HIGH....any other place for measuring pressure is pretty much useless. 320 in HIGH and 320 in LOW and zero pressure on both gauges in neutral.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 4:36pm
Im going off of what my IT manual said.  You measure it at a 't' fitting just in front of the operators stand on the RH side of the machine.  I see the plugs you are talking about, and i'll see what I have there tomorrow.  Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 5:09pm
Hate to be this way, but that's what you get for buying a junk manual! :-)  The IT manuals are just not very good manuals, the Allis manuals will be two to three times as thick, and only cover one tractor, now you have an idea as to how much more information is in a factory Allis Service manual.
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2012 at 10:43am
The I&T manual was free with the tractor.  Yeah, I probably should buy a better one.  Anyway, checked my pressures at the ports on the valve and I only have 250 on the high and 250 on the low, but I still have pressure in neutral(about 40psi).  Also, it takes a little bit for it to build to 250.  When you shift from neutral it jumps right up to about 150, and then slowly climbs to 250.  I'm thinking I should start by adding some shims to the relief, but the pressure in neutral and slow pressure build concerns me.  Any thoughts?
Thanks
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stray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2012 at 8:14pm
If you are getting 250 psi then it isn't your pressure reilef that reading is above the min. and it is just a spring and poppet valve. Have you checked these bushings any movement will cause problems
 
1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2012 at 8:24pm

Disconnect the vertical rod coming from the console. Clamp a good pair of vise-grips to the crossshaft on that linkage and force the linkage to go full stroke high and low and verify the pressures then.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 9:19pm
My bushings seem fine.(that was the first thing I checked)  But I disconnected the linkage and used a pair of vise grips on the cross-shaft, and my pressures are the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 10:09pm
Then remove the plug on top of the valve and begin adding shims to see if the pressure will raise to that 300 or so mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 10:10pm
  That is 300 psi or so at half throttle or more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 6:09am
Yeah. About 1600 rpm. It gets to 200 psi really fast, but takes about 10-15 seconds to build to 250.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2012 at 10:27am
Ok.  Finally got around to shimming the relief this morning, and that did it. Although I did have to play around with the shims some.  (The first time I had about 550 psi.)  I do still have some pressure in neutral,(about 30-50 psi).  Is this anything to be concerned with, or could it be just cold oil?  It was about 30 degrees here this morn, and I only had the tractor running for about 45 minutes total.  Thanks for the help guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 9:17pm
What's the problem if it moves in neutral, I just rebuilt my power director and it barely moves in high, low and neutral. Going to check pressures tomorrow.

Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 15 Mar 2012 at 9:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 9:31pm

Here is the best place to check the pressures one port is for high and the other is low.

I have two hoses with gauges attach in the ports. 1/8" pipe plug


Edited by stray - 16 Mar 2012 at 5:01am
1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 11:41pm
I will have to check the manual, but I am pretty sure you are suppose to read around 40-60psi in neutral.
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 5:00am

When I was working on mine last fall, it read zero in neutral on both gauges. The book also said that the minimum when engaged is 220 psi.

1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote overkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 6:57am
Originally posted by Orange Blood Orange Blood wrote:

Hate to be this way, but that's what you get for buying a junk manual! :-)  The IT manuals are just not very good manuals, the Allis manuals will be two to three times as thick, and only cover one tractor, now you have an idea as to how much more information is in a factory Allis Service manual.
I have a copy of the factory manual and it tells and shows you to check it in front of the operators station also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wise4agm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 7:48am
Hmmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 9:42am
So how come the AC/AGCO manual says to check pressure at TEE fitting by steering consol, but everone here says to check it at the valve? And on that TEE fitting it says for high and low you should see 225-275 Psi and 60 psi in neutral. Whats the correct way to check it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 11:24am
ok, here are my pressures, On the Low side i have 90-130psi, the gauge bounces between the two, in high i have 70-110psi, with needle bouncing between, and in neutral i have 15 psi. Everytime i run it and i pull the dipstick i get a rush of air out of the hole, and when i pulled the plug for the high side a big rush of air came out of the valve.  this was about 16-1800rpm.
 
Thanks, Carl
 
Update as of 2:45. Pulled out divider valve, seemed to be a little stiff/ stuck. Now I am reading 80psi in low, 60psi in high, and 0psi in neutral on both. if the gauges read 0 psi, then why does it still want to "drive" in neutral?
 
update as of 5:10. checked pressures on TEE fitting, low side has 130psi, high side has 110psi, with needle bouncing around in both, and neutral has 30psi. when running is there supposed to be oil coming out of the releif line come from manifold?


Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 16 Mar 2012 at 5:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 9:03pm
I'm no expert on these power directors but I would add some shims to the relief valve that I showed in the picture above, and see if the pressures increase. I know every valve is differant, but 1 shim raised mine from 200 psi to 275 psi.  Where are you checking pressures at? I know my manual said to check at the tee in front of the steering console, but every AC mechanic that I trust told me to check it at the valve.
1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 10:55pm
Its says in above post..I checked both..doesn't make sense in raising valve pressure if my supply pssure isn't high enough to the pd valve? Or are they adjusted the same?

Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 16 Mar 2012 at 11:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 6:15am

Think about it like this, if you have a hose with a gauge in it, running from the pump to the fill on the torque tube (hydrualic tank) it wouldn't show any pressure on the gauge becase there is no restriction. Pumps and relief valves don't make the pressure. The pump makes flow and relief valve controls the pressure. Restirctions is what makes the pressure. The power steering and the Power Director uses the same pump, and the steering I was told takes over 1100 psi to work. So if your power steerings working then you have the pressure you need to work the Power Director. So if your relief valve is passing oil at 130 psi you will never get the gauge at the tee above that, unless you are working the steering. When I was working on mine I was worried about the pressures being slightly differant, like yours, but when I got the relief valve shimmed right the two sided became the same.



Edited by stray - 17 Mar 2012 at 6:17am
1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 9:28am
Ok, that was what I was wondering, so, basically I need to shim up the relief valve on the pd valve. Should I just use lock washers? That's what my other valve had for shims.

Thanks, Carl

Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 17 Mar 2012 at 9:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 10:38am

If I remember right the flat washer is about the same as 3 or 4 shims. The shims are still avalible though Agco, don't quote me on this but I think somewhere in the area of $0.29 each. And 1 shim raised the pressure a lot more than I expected.

1969 190XT series 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 10:42am
Ok, I'll see what i can come up with.
 
Thanks, Carl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl(NWWI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 11:31am
Well i added two shims (small washer and lock washer) and the pressures didnt even think about changing.

Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 17 Mar 2012 at 11:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2012 at 1:01pm
Then I would say that you have a leak internally, I've not been in to that part resently enough to give advise. I know behind the valve there are a couple orings but I don't think it is very common to be the problem I would guess seals in the clutch itself have went bad.
1969 190XT series 3
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