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190XT Low Voltage / Alternator

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calico190xt68 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 May 2023 at 8:16pm
I posted a picture on here awhile back showing my old headlights and Steve in NJ pointed out that I obviously had low voltage situation so I finally got around to looking at it.  I put a voltmeter on it and I only show 1V coming out after I removed the battery lead.  So, I think I have a bad alternator, but I am new to alternators. 

When I look at the shop manual wiring diagram, the alternator looks completely different than what I have.  Mine appears to be a replaced 1 wire alternator?  The model that I found that matches the look of this alternator seems to be called a Delco 10SI?  Is this original?  I think there used different styles over the years but not sure.  Mine is 1968 serial 14419 if that matters.  Should I get the most reliable model, if it is not.  Not sure if this applies to this model but I read where 1 wire alternators need to be running 2000 rpm to charge?  They also have to have an exciter wire?  

Any guidance is appreciated.

All States Ag sells 2 different alternators and both look the same and do not look like the one I have.  Prices are more expensive than what I have too.  If I get an original, do I have to rewire things?

Here is the picture of what I have, in case someone can shed some light.  What is the purpose of the jumper wire?




80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 9:00pm
A alternator will not charge without battery lead hooked up. Check voltage at big post on alt. With tractor shut off. Crank tractor with some RPMs and check same place. Should have around two more volts unless battery is full charge.                MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 10:09pm
That white wire going to the double spade connector is an ODD BALL... If it was a 3 wire and using the two spades, you need a signal wire to #1 and a jumper from BAT to #2 .... If it is a 1 wire alternator, you should not need the jumper to the spades... So yes, something is wrong.......... you can go either way, 1 wire or 3 wire .. your choice.  and YES that is a DELCO 10 SI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 10:15pm
I would not pay $200. for a Delco 10 SI alternator....... about half that..

This is what you have , i think..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 10:20pm
above is a 63 amp unit which should be adequate if you dont have air cond and excess lights... If you want MORE OUTPUT AMPS, this is a 3 wire unit... You would need to do a little more wiring to install it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 7:01am
The DN style was needed if your tractor was late enough to use an alternator tach drive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 8:43am
On the back side of the black plastic connector there appears to be a connector but no wire attached.  I think it was there at one time.  Is it possible that a second wire was attached?  I can't see where a 3rd wire was ever attached.  Can an alternator be useful as a 2 wire?  I am going to look around and see if I can find a wire under the dash not attached to anything.  By any chance would that missing wire go to the the dash voltmeter?  It so happens I have a non Allis voltmeter gauge  in the dash.  It seems to be working too because once I turn on the key I see the voltmeter gauge go to 12 volts.

I don't think I need 3 wire since it is merely lights only on the 190XT.

I also tested the output with a voltmeter with the blue wire attached and it definitely is not putting out 13-14 volts.

The blue wire goes to the voltage regulator and not directly to the battery. That blue wire is always live.

I found Napa has these in stock locally for $76 with core exchange so am going to buy it from them.  Hope get it this weekend and report back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 8:48am
Blue wire goes to the amp meter ( your Regulator is internal ) in your photo i thought the WHITE wire was attached to the PLUG.. But that does not make any sense.. If the PLUG is just covering the two spade terminals, then you have a standard ONE WIRE alternator..  A 3 wire alternator would be wired DIFFERENT inside and the two terminals would be  #2 HOT and #1 SIGNAL from the dash light.. Someone could have removed the  NOT USED wire... In the beginning ( 1970s) it was not a 1 wire system.


a three wire would look like this--- resistor or dash light in the #1 spade..




Edited by steve(ill) - 19 May 2023 at 8:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 8:56am
If you do actually have an EXTERNAL voltage regulator, then that might be left over original equip.. Someone could have connected the BLUE wire to the BAT terminal of the regulator just as a terminal block attachment point... the OTHER wires on the regulator would be GONE or do nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 5:29pm
As Lynn mentioned, that originally had a "DN" series Delco which used an external voltage regulator. Probably mounted on the Tractor somewhere. The unit that is in your picture is a 12 "SI" Alternator. The 10 "SI" Alternator's larger cousin.  First thing I would do is remove the Alternator and bring it to a good local rebuilder and let him run some load tests one it and see exactly what it's doing. A 3 wire charging system is the way to go on Tractors, and Steve's basic diagram shows how its hooked. The only thing I would do differently is loose the Ammeter and replace it with a Voltmeter. Much safer when an Alternator is up front doing the charging chores.  We offer a 3 wire retrofit kit that works on pretty much any of the AC Tractors. Comes with Alternator, Voltmeter, the correct wiring and instructions if interested....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 6:53pm
Like always, things aren't straight forward for me as they should be.  I bought the 10Si and it is not exactly like my alternator.  I pulled off the pulley so that the same belt could be used and there aren't enough threads on it to put the nut on.  Here is the new alternator with old pulley.


Here is what it looks like on old alternator with old pulley. 


If I tried to use the new alternator with the new pulley, the belt would be out of alignment since the shaft is shorter than the other one.

This picture shows the difference.  it is about 1/2 inch shorter. 

 So, I guess I am going to have to get the old one rebuilt?  I don't want to keep buying other alternators without knowing the shaft length, only to have the same problem.

Anyone got any suggestions?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

As Lynn mentioned, that originally had a "DN" series Delco which used an external voltage regulator. Probably mounted on the Tractor somewhere. The unit that is in your picture is a 12 "SI" Alternator. The 10 "SI" Alternator's larger cousin.  First thing I would do is remove the Alternator and bring it to a good local rebuilder and let him run some load tests one it and see exactly what it's doing. A 3 wire charging system is the way to go on Tractors, and Steve's basic diagram shows how its hooked. The only thing I would do differently is loose the Ammeter and replace it with a Voltmeter. Much safer when an Alternator is up front doing the charging chores.  We offer a 3 wire retrofit kit that works on pretty much any of the AC Tractors. Comes with Alternator, Voltmeter, the correct wiring and instructions if interested....
Steve@B&B
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I didn't see this post until just now.  Since I have a 12SI and not a 10SI, that may explain the shaft mismatch.  I will take this back.  Before I have mine rebuilt, I need to look at your offering.  What part number is the kit?  I looked at your website and saw a bunch parts and not sure which one I need.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 10:40pm
I guess Steve is a lot better and telling a 12SI from a 10SI than i am !

(this may not be a DELCO, but a replacement for the 12SI) 




Edited by steve(ill) - 19 May 2023 at 10:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 10:47pm
My 220 has the regulater mounted under the little sloped hood in front of the dash panel. I would bet they put the 190's in same place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 6:20am
curious, I copied and zoooomed in the picture saw a lot of 'corrosion' to the internals of the alternator so it'd need to be tore apart,tested, rebuilt.
I've replaced all of the gennys on my 4 D-14s with GM CS-130 series alternators. They're physically smaller but have 'high' output. original genny pulley fits fine, have 'idiot' light on dash for charge control and broken belt indicator.
A true 'one wire' alternator will have a 'dummy' plastic plug in the '1-2' hole. 3-wire are technically better. CS-130s are dirt cheap from scrap yards..or free from 'donor' cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 8:29am
CS130 is a great little alternator to take the place of an old generator, on a smaller tractor with limited space...... he has a  190 XT with plenty of room, and wants a Direct Replacement with no mods for the mount.

If he wanted to modify the mounting bolts with a few shims, the 10SI that he bought would work fine.


Edited by steve(ill) - 20 May 2023 at 8:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 6:24pm
I have put all of these comments together and think I have figured it out.  Here is a summary of what I think I have:

1) Original alternator was replaced.  I have a 12si with higher output.
2) They jumpered it and sent a wire to the key switch which I have found.  I think they were sending the output of the alternator to the voltage gauge at one time. 
3) This means they tried to make a one wire into a 3 wire although 2 wires were missing.  Some of the the alternators can go either way.
4) The 10si is not a replacement for what I have although you can shim it and get the v belt straight.  I didn't know how to do this but I do now.
5) I traced the wires and the ignition switch is setup to be a 3 wire alternator I think.
6) I have an external voltage regulator under the dash on the angled plate but I am not sure it is doing anything.  12si has an internal regulator.  I think the regulator was from the old alternator which I think was as 10DN as it required an external regulator.
7) I may just go ahead and have my 12si rebuilt.  I am sure it is not putting out any volts.
8)  12si outputs 100Amps versus 63 amps for the 10si.
9) You can tell a 10si from a 12SI because it has a different fan blade.  The "solid" blade produces more cooling.  The 12 SI needs more cooling since it has higher output.
10) I may still replace wiring after rebuilding the 12si.
11) Not sure what the jumper white wire is that I have because it is attached to wire 2 and it should be attached to wire 1.  It must be used as an exciter to get the alternator to charge up but not sure.  It seems wrong or missing another wire.
12) If I want proper alignment of the Alternator/Fan belt I may need to apply shims to make the pulley get aligned.  I think the current alternator is slightly out of alignment but not that bad.

So, I am going to get Alternator rebuilt and go from there. Thanks to everyone for the help figuring out this setup.  Tough when it gets changed into something that is not in the parts book.  Let me know if I have anything wrong above or should go in a different direction.

Here is the voltage gauge that I have and it works although the alternator wire is not properly attached.   Is this gauge a 190Xt gauge or from something else?  Seems I didn't see this in the parts book.  It says Allis Chalmers on it.   That non-standard switch and led lights in the middle is a turn signal switch and signal indicators that I installed in case you are wondering.

 The oil gauge is connected to nothing so I think it was going to be a future improvement that never got done.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 7:43pm
i think you have a pretty good handle on things... So are you planning to have the old 12SI "rebuilt" as a single wire system ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 9:03pm
I was hoping to get it into a 3 wire system, if it can be. I thought some can be both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2023 at 9:20pm
yes... depending on which regulator is inside and how the wires are connected, you can do either..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2023 at 10:51am
Since I have a diesel, I don't have the ignition coil, distributor or ballast resistor to worry about.  It seems that I don't need the external voltage regulator installed below my dash.  Can I remove it?  I also don't have an ammeter but rather a voltmeter in my dash and I assume I can use it rather than an Ammeter?  Here is a 10W/10Ohm resistor that I am going to use. 



I am not sure about sending the wire to the headlight switch from the Voltmeter?  Is that what I want to do?  I haven't tracked my ignition key wires yet but do I need to do anything different there?

So, here is what I think I need to do to wire for a 3 wire alternator setup once I get my alternator fixed.  Thanks for the help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2023 at 4:11pm
YEP... and a VOLT METER jus measures voltage OUT of the switch to GROUND... not INLINE like an amp meter ............. maybe something like this....and you can put your head light switch wire on one of the ignition switch wires.. if you put it on the LEFT side, you can have the head lights on with the ignition switch off... if you put it on the RIGHT side, then the ignitions switch kills the power to the head lights switch.




Edited by steve(ill) - 22 May 2023 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2023 at 8:28pm
First, I really appreciate these diagrams you make. It makes it clear. I now know ammeter measures flow (amps) of electricity whereas voltmeter measures the storage (??) of electricity (volts). Be great to have both gauges but not sure I have dash space. My oil Guage doesn't work but maybe some day. I need to get the fuel Gauge working after this. I hope to start on rewiring all this over the weekend so I will report back.


Edited by calico190xt68 - 22 May 2023 at 8:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2023 at 8:39pm
curious.. did you upgrade the wiring that the new alternator can put out ? Going from 63 to 100 Amps is a serious increase in power ! Also any switches and fuses  will need to be upgraded as well.


Edited by jaybmiller - 22 May 2023 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2023 at 9:11pm
I am starting over on the wires. It is really a mess and original wiring isn't there either. I am following the guage requirements Steve outlined in his diagram.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2023 at 3:08pm
If your using the original key switch, I would not run the lights through it, just makes for more stress on key switch...

 Light switch is already near max on the 170 tractor and fail when additional or higher wattage lights are used and heats the slip connectors until they get hot on the inside then the switch becomes junk. ... unless you put in relays and control the relays through the light switch to the different light circuits. That becomes more involved with wiring and circuit breakers and/or fuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2023 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by JC-WI JC-WI wrote:

If your using the original key switch, I would not run the lights through it, just makes for more stress on key switch...

 Light switch is already near max on the 170 tractor and fail when additional or higher wattage lights are used and heats the slip connectors until they get hot on the inside then the switch becomes junk. ... unless you put in relays and control the relays through the light switch to the different light circuits. That becomes more involved with wiring and circuit breakers and/or fuses.


You bring up a good point.  I think my key switch is failing.  Does a newer one fix the issue and are they more resilient than the old ones to run the lights through them?  I am thinking about getting a new one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2023 at 10:58pm
A standard head light might be about 50 watts... thats 4 amps... two lights would be 8 amps.... A "GOOD" switch should handle that, but some may not.. If you have LED lights, it would be lower.... In general, probably not the best idea to run multiple lights off the key switch. ...... as JC said, with multiple lights, you might consider a relay that can be turned ON by the head light switch so that  the KEY and SWITCH only carry low amp signal.

this is a GOOD ONE-----



Tech Info:
Input Voltage: 12V
Amps: 8 Ign /  35 Acc  / 75 Start
Mounting: 1" Threaded Stem
Number of Terminals: 11
Anti Restart?: No
Momentary?: Yes
Position Config: Acc-Off-On/Acc-Start
Number of Positions: 4
Self Grounding?: No
(11) 6.4mm Blade Terminals for Wire Connections
0.188" Indexing Tab and 0.625" Indexing Flat


Edited by steve(ill) - 24 May 2023 at 11:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 8:04pm
Sorry I disappeared on this thread. I've been busy working on our deck out back on the house along with other projects around the house and property taking advantage of the nice weather. The 10SI and the 12SI have the same .670 mainshaft so the pulleys are interchangable.  Depending on the pulley, some Alternators may have a small spacer behind the pulley that would need to be removed to install the OEM pulley. That in most cases will give you your alignment. Steve's Voltmeter diagram is okay, but the #2 circuit on the Alternator is not jumped to the output stud. A true three wire setup would be the #2 (voltage sense circuit) run parallel with the heavy output wire and join together at the Battery side of the Starter Solenoid. The voltage sense circuit can then monitor current usage at the Solenoid for the Battery as well as at the dash where a lot of current is being used. Any accessory that is turned on, the voltage sense circuit will then sense the load in the system and ramp up the Alternator (if necessary) to counter the load usage.  This keeps the Battery "full" as well as monitoring the system . That's how a true 3 wire system operates. The charging system upgrade kit that I mentioned is our 1503-02A kit.  HTH

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Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:54am
Steve in NJ.  No problem on disappearing .  It is free advice.  Thanks for this info.  I have purchased the 12SI so the kit isn't appropriate for me now, but I might be in need of the proper wiring kit.  i will digest what you said.  I can't stop using the tractor long enough to fix it right now.  So, I put a battery charger on it every night.  I still think I have a pulley alignment issue but i will see once I dig into it. 

I believe I purchased a 3 wire only 12 SI but no one at NAPA could really figure it out so I need to be ready to get it all working and not just swap out the alternator.
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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