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190XT Hydraulic Help Please

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sindarion View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 7:58pm
I have a 190xt series III and am attempting to use an Australian made 28 run Chamberlain seeding drill.  My problem is this : the tynes are raised and lowered by two hydraulic rams, but there is only one hydraulic line back to the tractor (it is split, one to each ram).  The idea is that you pull the lever to raise the tynes, then the weight of the machine lowers them back down into the ground.

I am using the hydraulic remote that is usually used for the bucket tip function on the front end loader.

I have no problem raising the drill, but there is nothing I can go to get it back down again.  I have been told that since my 190xt has a FEL, it is a 2 way (not sure of the correct term) hydraulic system which won't let the hydraulic fluid back.  I'm a bit confused as this is the first time I have seen hydraulic equipment with only one hydraulic hose.

The reason I am seeking a bit of clarification is that I believe the 190xt is not compatible with this drill.  I have my eye on a Steiger Panther II ST310 which would also solve a lot of traction/horsepower issues.  The 190xt isn't really powerful enough for me, but I would still keep it to use as a loader.

However, I don't know whether to tell if this Steiger will be compatible with the drill.  If anyone has any advice on hydraulic systems, it would be appreciated.  I don't understand enough about them to know what I am looking for.  Are hydraulic remotes that are used for a FEL different to those that are generally used for attached equipment?  Some clarification on the correct terminoligy might help me to research it a bit better.
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allisorange View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisorange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 8:32pm
 
 
         You have a hydraulic system set up for cylinders that have pressure up and down and you have cylinders on the drill that are single acting or only has pressure one way. I don't think you will get it to work on your tractor. If there was a way to tap into your three point which are single acting like the drill. Someone on this forum will chim in and give you some idea what you can do.
 
                                           John Carlson
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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 8:46pm
My 190xt has no three point linkage.  Most of the 190xt's that were shipped to Australia were for broadacre applications, so they didn't come with the 3pl.  Is there any way to identify what it is about the system that makes it incompatible with single acting cylinders?  Is it an open or closed centre hydraulic system?

I just don't want to buy this Stieger, only to drive it 300km home and find that it too doesn't work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 9:31pm
On the 190xt, if it is setup like all others I've seen, you should have 4 positions that each lever for the remotes (hydraulic lines on the rear) will stay in.  The rear most position will raise the implement (when the correct hose is connected to the correct port), the 2nd from rear position will hold the implement in what ever position it is in, the 3rd from rear position will push the implement down on a double actiing cylinder (has 1 hose to each end of the cylinder), and the farthest position ahead is called the float position and it will allow the cylinder (wether it has 1 or 2 hoses) to go up or down however it feels.  So on your drill if you connect the 1 hose to the correct port on the rear of the tractor, when you pull the lever all the way back, it will raise the drill until you stop it, or it reaches the end of the cylinder travel which at that time it will kick the lever from the raise position to the hold position (2nd from the rear, also it will do that in the lower postion going back to the hold too).  Then when you want to lower the drill, just push the lever all the way ahead to the float position and leave the lever there until you want to raise the drill this will allow the drill to go deaper into the ground if it wants to, or you can put the lever in the hold position if it is going to deep, and it will keep the drill at that level.  On a side note incase you do have a different hydraulic system, like on my D21, and a lot of other tractors (makes and models) there are only 3 positions that the hydraulic levers have, and that is up, hold, and down.  On these systems, you can make your single acting cylinder work by just holding the lever ahead to lower the implement then putting the lever back in the hold postion, but by doing that it will force the oil that would normaly go to the other end of the cylinder to go past the relief valve because there is nowhere else to go, and can cause your hydraulics to overheat if the system can't get rid of the excess heat generated by opening the relief all the time when you lower the drill, generally though it isn't a problem unless you are doing a lot of short rows, but if doing that, you just need to use some common sense on monitoring your hydraulic temp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 9:33pm
Does the 190 have a float position with the handle forward? If so you might be able to go to float to let it down. If you hook it to the outlet that would normally lower the remote cylinder,you would push forward to raise it and push all the way to float to let it down. That seems to me like it would work but I might be all wet too. Charlie
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete from IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 9:34pm
I think all 190 tractors have a float position on the remote. My 190 works fine on a haybine with 1 hose, power up and gravity down. I would check the hydraulic coupler, it may be letting pressure through to raise, but will not let the oil through to go back down.
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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 9:52pm
It does have a float position.  However, when I push the lever to the float position, the drill still doesn't lower.  I've held it there for about 30 seconds, nothing happens.
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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 9:55pm
Perhaps the 190xt's with front end loaders have different hydraulic systems?  The FEL hydraulics need to push up and push down - its not push up, gravity down like you would find on a three point linkage.

Just a guess, I really don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 10:02pm
Pete might be on to something. Some hydraulic couplings will connect together but are not matched up to release the check balls work in both directions.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 10:27pm
The guy who I bought this drill off had it working on his tractor a few weeks ago.  So I know its something to do with my tractor's hydraulic system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 10:29pm
Not sure why you are having your particular problem.  I have an XT and have not had this problem with a one way cylinder to raise and lower my 2000 mono frame plow.
I do have a Glencoe soil saver that has a two way cylinder to lift and lower the implement and it has a mechanical/hydraulic valve on it that will only allow the implement to lower if hydraulic pressure is applied to lower it.  Putting the lever in float has no effect on it.
Only other thought I have is there may be something in the lift mechanical mechanism that is partly seized and the cylinder can lift it but its own weight will not overcome its seized strength to allow it to lower on its own?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrjuday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 11:06pm
Step 1: Raise hydraulics
Step 2: Disengage transport linkage on drill
Step 3: Go enjoy your new drill
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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 12:01am
As far as I can tell the transport linkage has been disengaged.  It an inch and a half pin that sits above one of the rams and stops it going down too far.  Ive taken it out.  I've looked over the machine many times to see if there is something else stopping it going down, but I really can't find anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 7:19am
Hydraulic couplers on the tractor don't like the hyd hose ends.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JK(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 12:09pm
I'm with Doc,  I had the same problem on a pull type Bush Hog and a AC 170 tractor...would raise it, but not lower.  Male and female couplers were not matched properly allowing the fluid to raise the machine, but not lower. Matched couplings, solved problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPG AUSTRALIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 6:59pm
Yes I agree with doc too, had this problem on a case last year and it was the couplers.The springs inside need too have the same tension on each poppet or one or the other will close and stop oil returning.

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sindarion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 1:18am
Thank you so much everyone.  Replaced the hydraulic couplers, problem solved.  If you are ever in the South West of Australia, drop in and I'll buy you a beer :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 2:40am
i use the float position on all my tractors alot, even with 2 way cyl's, and i agree with doc, if your hose conectors fit together, doesn't mean they will work properly. unhook your hyd hose, match it with other hose ends from your other equipment, also look for wear on your hose end. i have found that AC and IH (older machines) interchange, or use pioneer fittings both male and female matched set. some of my equip is 2-way and some 1-way, both work well on all my tractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave (Mid-MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 4:53am
Did the guy you bought the drill from use it successfully with one-way hydraulic cylinders? My IH grain drill needs a two-way cylinder. The weight of the double disc openers is not sufficient to put them in the ground after conventional tillage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sindarion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 7:22pm
Its fixed, guys.  You can rest easy!  I'm out seeding now.  It was the hydraulic couplers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisorange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 6:59am
 
        Glad you have the problem solved. There is'nt to much these guys can't help you with.
 
                                        John Carlson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisorange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 7:01am
 
 
        Glad your back to planting again. There probably is'nt anything these guys these guys can't help us with.
 
                                 John Carlson
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