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11/16" drill bits

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drobCA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drobCA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 11/16" drill bits
    Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 11:52pm
I need to drill an 11/16" hole in a Ford 8N head. 
actually, 3 holes.  1 each for 3 different tractors.
then I think  am unlikely to use that drill bit again for the foreseeable future - if ever.

I am tapping into a provided boss in order to insert a brass fitting for a sender for a temp gauge.  (the AC's already have them, the Fords don't.)

so... the question (finally) is:
is a black oxide drill bit going to do the job or do I need to step up to something better for my very limited use?

(demo video showed that the material is about 5/8" thick at the boss.)
3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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Ken(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 2:47am
Just about any hss twist drill will drill cast iron with no problem, run it dry and you should be able to drill dozens of those holes before it needs sharpening.
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DougS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 4:11am
If the bit is in a press you should have no problem drilling those holes with a single bit.  If you will be using a drill motor (you probably are) There's always the danger of it snagging and dinging up the edge of the bit. If this happens it won't matter which kind of bit you use. Just about anything should work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 4:55am
whichever bit you use, drill a pilot hole, with a 1/4 inch bit, then enlarge it with several other sizes, before tackling it with the 11/16 bit.  If it is very hard, the other bits will tell you...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 5:10am
Don't step it up too large before drilling the final size. Doing so gives the bit a much greater chance of snagging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 6:36am
yup start small, go up in steps.
my luck is I'd need 4 drill bits as the quality of bits these days is well, krappy.
I find I need oil to keep them sharp for any length of time
Got 4 coffee cans FULL of bits, dull bits, from 1/4 to 1 inch.Never learned how to sharpen them,sigh

BTW I'm sure my 8N had a temp gauge..so curious your don't ?!
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 6:55am
I was taught in school to use a pilot drill size matching the "chipper" size of the bit you are drilling a pilot for. I was taught to call it the chipper but some call it the "chisel edge". What I call the chipper or chipping edge is the part of the bit at the very tip. If you look at it, the tip isn't to a needle point but it has a tiny flat edge. That tiny flat edge is the chipper. That's the size you need your pilot bit to be to protect your bits from damage. Using a pilot bit too small may damage the chipper on your next bit or using a pilot bit too big may damage the cutting edge or "lip" of the next bit. You are better off to not use a pilot bit at all than to use an incorrect pilot bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 6:57am
If you want to sharpen a bit don't use a real fine grit stone. They put to much heat into the bit without removing much material. Make sure the stone is sharp and square across the face. Take a sharpie and mark the bit where you want to grind to. Take your time and practice, practice, practice. You can do it.  Leon  CMo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drobCA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 7:44am
thanks, guys.
I've done lots drilling in wood and plastic over the years but never had any experience putting holes in engines.
now I've got 3 tries to get it right. Wink


3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 7:46am
No oil on cast iron. Steel, use cutting oil, not motor oil.
Last pilot hole should not be larger than 1/2 the size of final hole.   MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 7:48am
DO NOT use oil on cast iron, or you will never get a hole in there. If using a hand drill, use a 3/16 pilot hole, and then go all the way, cast iron is about like machining wood (might be a slight exaggeration), not hard at all with built in graphite for lubrication, in a drill press, no pilot hole required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 8:44am
kinda big hole, I would NOT want to be using a hand drill in case it grabs, as it'll toss  you across the shop or bust a wrist.
be real careful, maybe secure drill with chain to prevent an accident.

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfmurray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 9:09am
In cast iron put pressure on bit and run it slower than in iron .To sharpen get a new bit and make the old one look just like new one .When sharp put in palm of hand and slighty twist .If sharp you can feel it start to pull the skin, if it don`t it will not cut. I have sharpened from one sixteenth to two inch sizes  and had to try more than once on some but it takes practice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 9:09am
 Hey DrobCa,,,,I'm thinkin "ditto" on what most of what others are sayin bout doin it in steps and no oil on cast iron.
 I learned several years ago how to properly grind a drill bit by hand from a Gentleman on a machinist forum. I have two Drill Doctors that I tried to use unsuccessfully til I learned how to grind em by hand. Also helps to have a "Drill Guide" to get the proper angle.Wink
 I have seen some YouTube videos where they weld a nut onto a bolt and use for a drill angle guide but,,,,????


Edited by desertjoe - 05 Jan 2018 at 9:12am
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 10:01am
A 135 degree split point drill doesn't need a pilot drill because it cuts to the center. I bought a 21/32" from McMaster Carr some time ago and drilled 40 holes in 1/2" steel plate making rim adapters to mount 12.4-42 rims on centers made for 18.4-32 on my 4020. I drilled a couple dozen more holes before the cutting edges needed touching up. I used a small vertical mill to hold the 8 adapter plates one at a time, and all the holes lined up to the 5/8" bolts when I mounted the narrow rims. No pilot holes needed an with the cutting to the center no wandering caused by the center web.
http://www.mcmaster.com

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Edited by Gerald J. - 05 Jan 2018 at 10:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 6:08pm
no oil is needed to drill, but use lard to thread. Works like a charm...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 7:47am
drob, I did that with my 8N.  Go with what MACK recommended on the pilot hole.  That is some soft drilling as I recall.  Personally, I would try a smaller pilot .   I don't think I have an expensive drill bit in the pile.  Confused

Yep ole Henry's idea of a temp gauge is to keep an eye on the hood and when stuff starts gurgling out on the hood it is getting toasty.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 9:57am
If you want to stay on an exact center only use one pilot drill and no larger than a 1/4" drill for a 11/16". The smaller hole will hold the 11/16" bit on center.
Every time you drill a larger size you increase the chance of the center of the drill leading to one side. If and when one bit leads off the hole is on a slight angle with the top of the hole staying on center. Each jump up in size when step drilling the angle will be greater once it starts to wonder. If one of the step drills had one side slightly duller than the other it will be more likely it will wonder.

I understand step drilling larger holes when your drill does not have the power to turn a larger bit where your not trying line two holes thru thicker metal.

When I am drilling larger holes in the 2" range thru two plates I do it on a mill and then bore the final size. You would be surprised how far off you can be with a drill bit.

If I was doing your job I would use the head as a drill guide for the hole in the block.      

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 5:53pm
what lonn says is correct ,also no cutting oil on cast iron it drills easy any way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 9:53pm
My experience with drilling cast iron, is that there's really good iron in really good, clean castings, and then there's everything else.

Let's say you're drilling holes and tapping them 1/4-20 or 3/8-16 into the column of a Bridgeport J-mill, or the back of a Monarch 10EE... to mount a control cabinet for variable frequency drive.... the iron is excellent, and the casting is clean.  Drilling is easy... even with a cordless drill, I'll do 'em in one shot, with ordinary jobber-length drill bits, and I even tap them dry... I'll use an air  hose to blow the spoils clear, other'n that, no worries.

But... I've found some castings where the iron is substantially less than good... and I've found some that there was casting sand caught up inside the iron... got in there, hit a piece of sand, snagged the bit, and bam... broke it right off...

I have never done it, but my gut feeling is that the Ford N cylinder head is probably not in the category of a Bridgeport J-mill or a Monarch 10EE lathe...  Henry didn't strike me as the kind of guy who concerned himself with the quality of a casting... Seems to me that their program was that if it fit, and didn't leak much, it went out the door...  Confused

That being said, I DID do a cooling system modification to the Ford 192 in my Hyster H50H forklift, and it included drilling, then counterboring and tapping the head for a coolant bypass between #2 and #3 cylinder... and the head drilled okay.  That was, however, an 'industrial' engine... so it may be a different story... I dunno.  I know that the 192 is the weakest four-cylinder engine I've ever owned, but that means absolutely nothing in terms of the casting quality and workmanship...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 10:38pm
On Ford casting quality. My dad bought a new '54 Ford Fairlane with their new I block short stroke overhead valve 6 cylinder engine with overdrive transmission (that came with a 4.10 rear axle) after the '55 models were out. In its first year it developed anoil leak at the back end of the block. The dealer pulled the engine and replaced the freeze plug at the back end of the camshaft. Didn't cure the leak. My dad noticed when we had the rocker cover off that the cast ridge for the rocker cover gasket had gaps at the back end of the head. We had the rocker cover off to adjust the valves (solid lifters and the owner's manual wanted them set often with the engine warm and running). He got busy with a flat mill file (some called that a Mexican End Mill) and cut the entire ridge down to the bottoms of the gaps at the rear and cured the oil leak. It was still not leaking at 115K miles when he sold it for me. He had given it to me as a graduation present in 1963 after having the rusty body parts repaired by his brother who had a body shop in SE Missouri.

Gerald J.
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