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04" Dodge Ram 2500 (death wobble) |
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Brian S(NY) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: CherryValley,NY Points: 3378 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 3:53pm |
I have a Dodge Ram 2500. I am experiencing what I call a death wobble. If I get up to 60 mph and hit a bump the front end seems to wobble and shake so bad I can barely hold it on the road. I thought the front stabilzer shock was bad si I changed that but it hasnt helped. The tie rod ends seem tight.. the ball joints seem ok.. the tires are a little worn but shouldnt cause this..It happened again this morning going to work and almost caused me to wreck , I was all over the road.. anyone got any ideas?
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God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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Death Wobble. An explanation.
Death Wobble is violent uncontrolled oscillation of the front wheels. It is mostly induced by opposing caster forces, skid-bouncing the tires, quickly side to side. It can be very tricky to fix if you are not very familiar with what is actually causing it. There are different levels of intensity, ranging from 2 seconds of violent shaking, to non-stop, uncontrolled, whole vehicle vibration, that won't stop until the vehicle stops. Either way, it is called "DEATH wobble" for a reason. You'll know it's Death Wobble if you experience it. If your truck is vibrating a little all the time, being slightly annoying, this is NOT Death Wobble. When Death Wobble happens, your heart rate elevates, you are afraid, and it is very intense. I have experienced Death Wobble in many vehicles, from a brand new Dodge Ram, to a 1964 Lincoln Continental. It's normal reason for happening, on most vehicles, is when suspension and steering parts are very worn out. On these Dodge Rams, even when the truck is almost brand new, poorly designed parts are also big players. Don't fall prey to bad internet intel. We'll do our best to steer you straight here, in regard to the Dodge Rams, and what is going on with Death Wobble(DW from here on out). Most common causes of Death Wobble, on the Dodge Ram platform, in order of importance. #1 TRACKBAR ISSUES Problems with the trackbar is the most common reason DW happens on these trucks. As small as 1/16" of side-to-side deflection, can play a part in DW. Rubber/soft bushings, and exaggerated bends in the trackbar design, are the 2 biggest reasons we feel upgrading the trackbar on 2003-2013 Rams, is basically mandatory. Installing 2 piece soft Polyurethane bushings in the stock trackbar is no help, and can almost end up performing worse, after the first week of driving. Even if the bushing ends of the factory trackbar WERE made solid, that still does not address the flexy OEM bar shape, which ends up acting like a big spring. The OEM trackbar as a whole, is just a bad design. To clarify the track bar's importance, if you remove the trackbar, you can't even get out of your driveway. Back to the spring analogy.... This is where the design of the trackbar, as a whole, plays a huge part. Here is why.... The trackbar is THE ONLY support for the steering. As you steer left, you compress the trackbar. Steer right, stretch the trackbar. If the trackbar is allowed to compress and extend, the truck can basically steer itself when you encounter forces at the wheel, which can turn into DW oscillations. This is why death-gripping your steering wheel when you get DW, almost makes it worse, as you are HELPING the truck have a mind of it's own. This is why we say the trackbar design, as a whole, must be as solid and rigid as possible. This makes the truck stay on track, and inputs you make through the steering wheel, will actually get to the wheels! Here is the more in depth explanation of what is actually happening, in regards to the trackbar playing a part of DW, when DW happens in it's most common form.
2013+ Ram "radius arm platform" track bar notes. Dodge improved the trackbar quite a bit, on this new platform, but it's still not perfect. The bends have been relaxed so the bar is less "springy", and the rubber bushings have been improved by having less deflection. Still, with std rubber torsion bushings, it's only a matter of time before they do go soft or fail. I estimate that approximately around 20,000 miles, you will want to plan on upgrading the front trackbar, especially if having increased suspension travel and a bit of lift. |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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#2 STEERING DAMPER SHOCK
I used to believe a long time ago, that you did not NEED a steering damper, on any vehicle really. I felt all it really did was help to keep the steering wheel from being jerked out of your hands, and that was it's main purpose. I changed my thinking, when I started specializing in these very heavy Diesel trucks over a decade ago. Here is why you NEED a steering damper, and why you need a really good, proven one. #3 TIRES #4 ALIGNMENT, NORMAL COMPONENT WEAR, AND THE OTHER LITTLE THINGS Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Aug 2020 at 4:09pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Brian S(NY) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: CherryValley,NY Points: 3378 |
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that sounds about what happens.. I brake to nearly a stop to get it to stopp wobbling... when it happened this morning it was so violent that everything loose in the back seat ended up in the front.. I had my troll ing motor on the floor in the back seat and it bounced so High it hit the back of the seat behing my head. :( I have over 160, 000 miles on it... is it time to get rid of it?
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God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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the problem is in the steering components.. On a truck with LOW miles, they say to look at the TRACK BAR and mounting bolts .......... as a truck gets OLDER and more miles, you get additional wear... In addition to the BAR, it could be the tie rods, ball joints, toe in/out alignment or tire wear........ a GOOD INSPECTION is in order.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Brian S(NY) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: CherryValley,NY Points: 3378 |
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I just had it on the lift at the local garage... they said bring it back monday and they are going to go over it again ... not safe the way it is.. I worry that the wobble will cause somthing else to break or cause catastrophic
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God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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DougG ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8246 |
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Becareful as the bar going across to keep it all in line will break in this situation and thats not good
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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had that happen on a brand new ferd pickup (company truck) only when we hooked up a trailer to it, didn't matter what speed. would wear your arms out driving it. of course the dealer couldn't find anything wrong with it. no one could, but they sure knew it was there when they drove it. finally traded it off for another new truck.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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Death wobble is easy to fix. Check the track bar joints, they're usually loose. Changing the shocks and steering stabilizer will not fix it. The biggest offender is too much toe in, NOT caster. A solid front axle does not like and should not have as much toe in as an independent suspension. Taking caster away also takes stability and road feel away, not a good thing. On every death wobble job I ever fixed the toe was usually 1/4" to 3/8" in. Way too much! The reason for having toe in is because of the moving parts and rubber bushings. The wheels are turned in to account for the deflection encountered. There's a fraction of the moving parts and bushings on a straight axle therefore not nearly as much toe is needed. Reduce the toe to 1/16" in and it will drive nice and straight. Don't forget to adjust the steering gear backlash as needed.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41817 |
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toe in and worn tie rod ends - just enough deflection in one or both to get oscillation of front wheels being out of alignment to start it and then all H breaks lose .
A Mack I was driving a few years back did it when hitting a bump or making a long sweeping turn - not fun when tractor and trailer amplify the movement . |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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HD6GTOM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: MADISON CO IA Points: 6627 |
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My diesel was the track bar. Believe it or not, it was cheaper to buy the new bar from Dodge. New bar fixed it.
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Brian S(NY) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: CherryValley,NY Points: 3378 |
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I'm relaying all this to the shop I use. I appreciate everyones coments and sugestions. I personally had never heard of this until a post by Orin about Death Wobble on a motorcycle... never imagined I'd experience it myself :( on my truck. BTW I've since heard also that it was a problem with some Jeeps ? They are also a chrysler product I think...
Edited by Brian S(NY) - 29 Aug 2020 at 4:23pm |
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God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85458 |
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its more a design problem with the straight front axle than it is a manufacturer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3764 |
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if the ball joints move the slightest bit with a big bar in there when its on the hoist they need replaced both sides
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5957 |
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As others said, it's all a function of the front axle remaining in proper position with respect to the frame. The axle moves sideways, which changes position between the steering arm and knuckle, which redirects the wheels, which pushes the vehicle to one side, which forces the axle to the other side... etc... Running supple high-profile tires can add a whole lot to the mix, but not likely your problem unless you've had a recent change of tire type. Crawl under, and watch, while a friend pushes SIDEWAYS on the truck... not rocking it, but pushing it laterally back and forth. If the body moves, and the axle doesn't, and the wheels move, find the slop point. Problem with death wobble, is that it frequently involves LOTS of slightly worn-enough-to-be-slightly-loose bushings, and nobody wants to go on a badly-needed bushing-changing-spree. The other thing to note... is that if you put the truck up on a lift, or jacks, and let the suspension hang, it will not exhibit the same slop as if it were on the ground bearing weight. It also changes with angle of the truck- if the rear squats with a trailer, the angle changes AND... there's less weight on the steer axle. Shameless's example on the new Ford is similar... a combination of body roll, trailer hitch height and hitch weight causes a whipping action between the truck chassis and the trailer. It is somewhat like death wobble, but much lower in frequency. If it occurs WITH death wobble, you have an extremely ditchworthy situation, so be very careful.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DonBC ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Courtenay, BC, Points: 930 |
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Some Jeeps were bad for death wobble. My Comanche started to once but was usually not a problem. The ball joint on one end of the track bar wore out but the most problem it caused was about a 1/4 play on the steering wheel which meant I was sort of herding it down the highway and there was always a clunking sound when hitting bumps. I finally replaced it this summer. It was made with a couple of bends in it but that sucker was so heavy and rigid there was no way that it would flex.
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Jack of all trades, master of none
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10605 |
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I have had a disc brake caliper stick and cause a wobble too.
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