This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Topics > Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Wind turbine

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
DanWi View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wind turbine
    Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 1:10pm
Dodge county in Wisconsin north west of Milwaukee had a a turbine with blades break off of it's tower and fall to the ground. No other damage or injuries.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29235
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 2:32pm
Engineers insist can just build bigger, forget there is a rule of Mass movement that dictates how much is a Critical mass.  Likely see more of this type failure as they get bigger.
Back to Top
shameless dude View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 6:20pm
was told by a maintinance person for them that the blades need to be re-torked every so often. maybe that's why it failed?
Back to Top
DanWi View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 6:43pm
Picture in the news story only shows the tower looks like the whole thing fell off the top.
Back to Top
Walker View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: oh
Points: 8041
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 6:51pm
Has anybody looked under it yet, would anybody own up to it if hey did find some cadavers?
Back to Top
DaveKamp View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 10:29am

No one injured after wind turbine collapses onto Dodge County field, leaving a 'crater'


Associated Press
2 hours ago

HERMAN, Wis. (AP) — A company that operates a southern Wisconsin wind farm is investigating what caused part of a wind turbine and its blades to plummet to the ground, leaving debris strewn across a field.

No one was injured Wednesday night when the blades and top portion of a wind turbine collapsed in Dodge County, near the town of Herman.

The turbine, which is part of the Butler Ridge wind farm, stands about 400 feet above the ground, according to the National Weather Service.

Mark Dietrich, whose father owns the property where the collapse occurred, told WISN-TV that a nearby resident said that when it collapsed “they both heard it and it shook their house."

Dietrich said he’s glad nobody was hurt, although massive pieces of debris were left scattered across the ground and there is a large crater from the impact.

“That’s a lot of weight coming down at one time. It left quite the crater,” he said.

NextEra Energy Resources owns the turbine. The company said in statement that it believe that “this was an isolated incident as turbine malfunctions are rare."

The company said it is working to determine “the cause of the turbine failure and assessing other turbines on site as a quality-control measure.”

Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
Back to Top
DaveKamp View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 10:54am
"The company said in statement that it believe that “this was an isolated incident as turbine malfunctions are rare."

The company said it is working to determine “the cause of the turbine failure and assessing other turbines on site as a quality-control measure.”

------------------------------------------------------------------

There's two statistical generalizations here:

The first, is the term 'Isolated incident' which should be interpreted as 'they have only seen it once here'.


The second is "malfunctions are rare"... which means, out of a group of X units, they have seen failures Y times.


To identify "malfunctions" as rare is clearly a misrepresentation, as function means it fully operational in all aspects.  Anyone who drives through a wind farm on a windy day and sees one of ten machines not spinning, is witness to 10% observable malfunction rate... AND... although they're turning, they may not actually be GENERATING... so from a visual observation standpoint, the malfunction rate could be substantially higher than 10%.  An excellent example was the hundreds of wind turbines located on the eastern ridge of the Tehachapi basin from the mid '80's through about four years ago... around 60-70 units originally built in the 25-50kw range spun vigorously all those years, but never produced, because the gearboxes had failed.  To keep the impression of function, they simply removed the reduction gears from the units and allowed the sails and pitch control governors to continue operating.

The third aspect of this, is the advertised reasoning for 'assessing other turbines on site as a quality-control measure'.  This is a misstatement.


Quality control, is when you define and affect a method for assessing the success of a production process, and in doing so, you determine the failure rate of parts, in the pursuit of having a low failure rate with respect to reasonable production cost.

Failures have NOTHING to do with Quality Control... other than the statistical RATE of failures is relatively predictable.


Failures have to do with Quality  Assurance.  Quality Assurance is the process of methodically REMOVING FAILURES as EARLY in all processes as possible.

Here's an in-scheme explanation:


A supplier provides a thousand bolts to a manufacturer, with a Quality Control target of under 3 failures per 100 bolts...

That means, in a 1000-bolt order, they'll have equal to, or less than 30 bad bolts.

The supplier maintains their contractual obligation, therefore, by providing an extra SIX bolts for every 100 they send out (3 for the expected failures, and 3 more just for good measure).

To QUALIFY the shipment, the supplier takes a SAMPLE of every-so-many bolts, and subjects it to a variety of tests to prove that they're being made 'right'.  If they get a bad one, they go back through their manufacturing process and CORRECT it.  They go through, pull out all the bad ones, and restart the process.

Then the batch goes out the door.


At the reciever, the bolts are counted, then sent into their system for use.

IF they have a QA tier in place, those bolts are checked with a variety of tests to assure that EVERY BAD BOLT is found.  One of the first tests, is to WEIGH each bolt.  Then they run it through a machine that aligns it just right, then drop it onto a special angled plate, where it bounces off and lands on a conveyor. There's a microphone array on the plate, and they LISTEN to the sound that bolt makes when it hits the plate... between these two tests (which can happen really fast) they can find LOTS of bad bolt problems, and reject the suspect bolts, so they never get to the assembly line.


Sending guys out to look at a wind turbine structure AFTER it's been built, ain't Quality Control...


it's damage control.


Statistics are used to suggest 'possibility and probability' of something happening.

The true definition of 'Possibility and Probability'

-  If something happens ONCE... it is POSSIBLE.

-  If something happens TWICE-  It is PROBABLE.


They fracture, burn, melt, fall, explode, crumple.  90% of a windmill's problem, is it's elevation.  Things that are far off the ground are subject to some pretty incredible circumstances- temperature, deflection, vibration, ice... and finally, gravity.


Only two things you can depend on:  Gravity, and Triangles.  Gravity and Triangles will ALWAYS prevail.



Edited by DaveKamp - 23 Jan 2023 at 10:54am
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29235
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:04am
Dealt with bolts Made In CHINA, JUNK.  No quality control, Look great but test crap.  Chinese steel alloys, at best JUNK.
Back to Top
Clay View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Udall, Kansas
Points: 8669
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:17am
I HATE WIND TURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hazardous to aircraft and wildlife.

UGLY

Not cost effective.

Not a reliable source of electricity.

BAD for the environment.
Censored
Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 4:34pm
Something like 72,000 wind mills have been built ...... and that is LESS than 10% of the power used in the US...
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
NEVER green View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Location: MN.
Points: 6363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Something like 72,000 wind mills have been built ...... and that is LESS than 10% of the power used in the US...
  
  When the wind is a blowing!!!
2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       
Back to Top
Walker View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: oh
Points: 8041
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:16pm
I'm guessing here but say at an average of one Eagle a year per windmill would still be a pile of sliced Eagle meat and all of it having less importance than Al Gore's bank account. Even figured using politicians math it still don't seem fair.
Back to Top
BrianC View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Location: New York
Points: 1612
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:43pm
YouTube has interesting videos of turbines flying apart and such.

My neighbor wants to install another an old school Aeromotor with well and pump.
My dad had one but he sold it. It added character.
Back to Top
DaveKamp View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by BrianC BrianC wrote:

YouTube has interesting videos of turbines flying apart and such.

My neighbor wants to install another an old school Aeromotor with well and pump.
My dad had one but he sold it. It added character.


But see, all one needs to do, is look at the documentation from Aermotor (Yes, they're still in business, you can still buy them new, albeit they're internally improved in modern ways, but still very much 'classic' on the outside) and you'll see the very basic truth in sizing and operation.

Lifting water by windmill has been done for over a thousand years.  It's all about knowing what amount of water (diameter of pump and stroke), and how HIGH it needs to be lifted (well depth + a dozen feet or so)... then compare that to the prevailing average wind, and the distance from the bottom of the windmill tower, to a certain point above average terrain, and their sizing chart tells you the diameter of the head, and which gear unit you need to select.

It does NOT promise to bring you water when the wind isn't blowing... and when your water tank is full, if the wind is blowing, it will either overfill your tank, or (if you have the float-type furling device) it will automatically furl until such time as the water level in the tank falls.  The Aermotor, like most rural windmills, uses flat flights (blades) that operate as 'drag' rather than 'lift' devices.  They're made of galvanized steel, so sunlight and flying dirt and debris have no affect.  They're electrically conductive to the ground, with ground-brushes integrated into the design, so that airflow over the flights, through the structure, etc., passes to ground with no drama.

They cannot burn...  a grass fire passing through has no effect.  The gearbox has oil in it, but there's not much, and it's up plenty high.  Even the 'breakaway stick' (which like a sickle mower, is designed to break apart in the event that something jams) will generally escape the flames...

There's lots of good things about 'old tech'.  The common farm windmill was simple, robust, had a basic low-power job to do, and it had no problem doing it.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum