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which weld rod,,,,? |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13361 |
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Posted: 20 Dec 2022 at 1:41pm |
I have NO idea what has happened with either me or my arc welder or ,,,,or,,Chit mayhaps it beem ole Shameless all along,,,,?? I did buy an older model Lincoln "Tombstone" arc welder that I like to use on thicker metals and leave the Lincoln 175 Mig welder for the lighter stuff. The arc welder is a AC-225-S Lincoln,, But here recently I find the arc welder to be quite a handfull to get a nice weld bead like I always could do without any problems at all!! I might of changed weld rod as I always used 6011 on the other arc welder I had (still have it ) chit,,it don't have any writing on it so can't tell ya'll whay is really is/was,,,Somebody told me I should use 6013 so I got a 10# carton,,didn't loke it and back to 6011 and having issues with it TOO!! The 6011 seems to "Stick" bad and have to restart the bead too often,,,,? Any help,,??
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11399 |
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Have you tried bringing a handful of rods inside, maybe stick them in the oven on warm for a beer or two, then try them out real quick? I know you live in the desert, but seems you have had some weather lately.
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33658 |
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Running to cold? Base metal clean? Rods a bit rusty on the end? Some rods are finickier than others. As T-bone said, might be the moisture giving you fits... yea, put them in the oven and forget them for a couple hours. |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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KMAG
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 May 2020 Location: Elizabethtown, Points: 654 |
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Lincoln has recommended amps for rod type, rod diameters, and metal thickness. I find using the reverse polarity setting (overhead welding) on the box requires a bit more amps to prevent rod sticking.
Edited by KMAG - 20 Dec 2022 at 2:31pm |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21557 |
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DJ , get a box of 7018AC rods ! It's the ONLY rods I've used for 30+ years with my AC-225-S. Actually tried the 6013 or 6011 this summer, YUCK...got 10#s minus 4 rods here,YUCK.. I use 7018AC 3/32 for welding up mower decks, 7018AC 1/8 to make trailers NEVER ,ever had a bad weld and let's face it , I can't be that lucky !!! 7018 AC....AC on the end , as in Allis-Chalmers.... easy to um ,ah, oh yeah, remember !!! About 5 years ago I replaced the AMPS switch,cost $45, back then.
Edited by jaybmiller - 20 Dec 2022 at 3:32pm |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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DonBC
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Courtenay, BC, Points: 901 |
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I agree with moisture problems. The coating can attract moisture in cooler weather. I always stored my rods in the house.
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Jack of all trades, master of none
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78002 |
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i agree on drying the rod.. and if it STICKS.. you need to turn up the amps 5- 10 and try it.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 632 |
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Definitely try the 7018AC rod, it is made special for the AC buzz boxes.
My Son-in-law's brother is a pretty good welder (certified); he did a bit of welding for us using my buzz box (he had never done any AC welding, only modern stuff) I told him "this contraption will make you into a better welder". All I had on hand was some 6011 and 6013; he said he had never had so much trouble getting an arc struck, but pretty soon he was laying some nice beads down. I will never be that good because I don't want to weld enough to ever get that good. |
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Dusty MI
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5053 |
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I laso have a Lincoln 225 A.C. I like to use 7014 rod. I have a round plastic container with a cover that screws on to keep the rods sealed from moister.
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4430 |
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Actually 6011 rod is designed to use on rusty steel and somewhat of a "fast freeze" rod that is often used for the fist pass of pipe welding. The 6013 is more of a "fast fill".
There are some companies that make rods that any buffoon can make a pretty weld with. Way back when I was in high school welding class a salesman can to do a talk and wrapped the cord of a stinger handle in a twist and then laid the end of the rod up against steel, then let go and walked away until the rod burnt out. It made a perfect weld without any human input. I can't remember what the name of the company was, although I do remember that back then those rods were expensive.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13361 |
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Well,,,I'm gonna have to fess up as I'm betting ole Les's trk radiator that ole Shameless is gonna try and blow up my story sure as chit,,,,,, The Welder is an almost new Lincoln that the PO had put it in garage and,,,,and,,,forgot it for a, a,,few years BUT the box of 6011 was a .....bit old,,,but always been inside and I only take out of the 50# box what I'm gonna use . I'm gonna try puttin some in the oven as I now remember when still working I seen a demonstration of a salesman showing the company welders the BIG difference in using an oven Vs leaving the rod boxes on the work table,,,It was amazing!! The Dude at welding supply told me to try a 5# box of 7018 AC in 1/8" and he would order me a big box as he was sure I would like it sure!!???
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captaindana
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2374 |
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Double check your ground wire and clamp connections
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana |
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KJCHRIS
Orange Level Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: WC Iowa Points: 825 |
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Check both the ground and rod holder connections for loose/dirty connection.
How are you storing rods? the plastic sealable containers that hold 5 lbs work good for me. Fancy storage is heated rod boxes ( $400-->), or an old refrigerator with a small light bulb (15-40 watts) to provide heat. IF running straight AC welder my pick would be these 2 numbers; 6010 and 7014 to finish, run 3/32" for thinner metal and 1/8" for 5/16" and thicker. 6011 we used for field repair on rusty scaled metal. IF running an AC/DC on DC I'd still use the 6010 but would also use 7018. 7018 is very susceptable to drawing moisture. If planning a job, I'll take some into house, put in oven and bake @ 350* F for 30-45 minutes. |
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13361 |
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Hey KJChris,,,that right there is a GREAT idea on the old fridge for a rod box,,,I'm kinda pizzed as I seen one of them apartment fridges at the city dump that looked like the box was in good shape,,,,,I'll go back in the morn see if still there. I also use the 5# size plastic pkgs the rod comes in and seems to keep em dry,,but who knows,,,?? OH, and the grd clamp and rod clamp are both new and good and tight as waas first thing I looked at. I shoulda posted a pic as most of the welds looked like CHIT before I spent bout an hour grinding all them GORRILLAS down,,,,, I HATE having to do that as I usually put down some respectable welds,,,,,
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dee_veloper
Orange Level Joined: 12 Apr 2021 Location: USA Points: 1168 |
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7014 is the rod of choice for me. This chart may help as well
Edited by dee_veloper - 21 Dec 2022 at 1:53am |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11399 |
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YEAH! He always used 6011 with no trouble, and something is up at the moment. CHANGE THE TYPE OF ROD!
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29655 |
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6010 make a decent Root Pass rod, to go back over with 7018 for strength. 6011 and 6013 I quit using more than 30 years ago.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13361 |
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WELL, A SORT OF AN update,,,BUT i WANNA KNOW,,,,,," "Will The Real Counter Person, Please Stand Up"??",,,,CHIT,,,I was all excited that with ya'lls info I was fixing to solve all my welder's issues,,,but the counter person at the welding Supply Shop told me "Lincoln does NOT make any 7018 in AC, 7018 is ONLY made in DC,,,so I ask him, does ANYONE IN THE FRIGGIN WORLD make 7018 in AC,,,? He was still shaking his head "NO" when I headed out the door,,!! Tractor Supply was on my way home so I thought I'll try one more plaace,,,and they had some 2# boxes of 1/8" 7018 AC in the Hobart brand. Hard to believe thay put people behind their coumters with no more savey then that,,,,,
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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coat hangers
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29655 |
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I have both AC & DC 7018
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21557 |
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HAY DJ.... I've got 2 boxes of it here !!! it's the only stuff I buy...don't buy cheap 'store branded stuff'..... btw, 7 seconds on the internet.... https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/products/lincoln7018acrsp_smaw?sku=ED033515 Want to have fun, go back to that place, make a bet.. so you say Lincoln don't make 7018AC rods? OK, if I can prove it, you'll give me 110# for free,if not I'll give you 100$...show him the cash and a handshake..... ..then grab his computer, and google 'lincoln 7018AC ' you can mail me 10# of the LINCOLN 7018AC as a 'finders fee'.... Jay Edited by jaybmiller - 21 Dec 2022 at 5:49pm |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 1814 |
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I still use 6010, (Lincoln Red Rod) 7018, (Lincoln Excalibur, Hobart Bros., Mckay Electrodes, ESAB Atom ARC) and a little 7014, (Lincoln) for high fill. I don't really use any AC current except for tig welding aluminum or non ferrous work. My portable machines are 400A, and 500A Hobart Bros. engine drives. DC only in reverse, or straight polarity will take you all the way.
6010 is a forceful digging arc intended for DC and it excels on dirty, rusty and crusty baseplate. 6011 tries to emulate this characteristic on AC but only does a mediocre job. This rod, (6010, 6011) used as intended and capped with 7018 will give very good durability if the substrate is prepared correctly. I still repair a lot of repairs made by farmers who don't know how to both use the machine, nor the filler rod let alone prep the surface correctly. In reality, and as of late, I drag along my machine and break out the feeder with Lincoln, or Hobart Bros. flux core filler material. So much faster than stick and just as good of job. I prefer the old 400A machine for air arcing or gouging as it's commutator based and has no diodes to blow out when working with the high current. The later machine does just as well in all features as the older one, but "Bart Sr." still does what I need him to do.
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13361 |
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Well,,I'm gonna figure this sob out one way or the other!! I got home and went out and gave that 7018 AC rod a time or two ,,,,and then I done it again and danged if it ain't doing the same CHIT the other rod I was using,,,,WTF,,,,?? Tried back and forth changing rods and about decided something is amiss with the frigging Lincoln welder,,,it just don't want to weld anything!! It sticks bad so upped the heat from 65 to 75,,,nope,,,tried 85 nope again, still sticking and just making big ole gorrillas, not flowing worth a chit. went back to 6013 same chit even tried some 6010,,, I believe something AFU with the Lincoln,,,,!! Any kind words of wisdom?? I went and drug out my old 200 amp machine and it is "SUREWELD NCG AC ARC WELDER and I remembered the machine had tipped over and broke the aluminum crank handle,,,,I had done a southern engineering fix and then I bought the Lincoln and ,,,,just put it up I'm gonna check it out tamarrow cause I gotta finish this project soon
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41217 |
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1/8 rod and 6013 - around 120 Amp 1/8 6011 will run at 100 to 130 Amp
6010 is a DC and will stick . 7018 comes in AC rod IF marked as such but is a DC rod also and runs at around 120 Amp and up 7014 is more of a drag rod for flat weld and runs around 120 Amp and up . I use mainly 1/8 rod on SMAW coated rod but now with the Pow Con or the Miller 304 everything is 70S .035 wire and reverse polarity . Way back I bought a 50 lb can of 7018 to do some work on trailer and and no matter what I tried it didn't burn right , stuck , sputtered and would not lay out , When I got the Pow Con and used reverse polarity the stuff laid out like buttering toast . Smooth as glass , flux lifted at around 3" past puddle and chipped off with hardly even touching it . |
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 1814 |
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You need to ensure the ground, (work) connection is as clean as your weld zone and it's more critical on the small AC buzzboxes no matter the brand. These are just a multi tap transformer with little to no filtering of the arc on the secondary output, (stinger). Unless a very old AC-225S Lincoln machine, it is also aluminum windings in the transformer and they weld a lot different with some use on them than when new. I purchased mine new in 1974 and it has copper windings, but newer than that are aluminum from what I've seen.
Another trick is to use two different grinding discs when working on repairs. I carry several grinders with different discs mounted up and don't use a disc that has busted the/a rust layer for much other than that. Break the crust, then use another disc to finish grind for a clean surface to weld to. Same thing with paint, don't use a grinding disc for metal to remove paint, this contaminates the disc spreading to your work. Using several discs avoids the cross contamination that gives many fits.
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 937 |
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Many good points on electrodes, grounds, prep and cleanliness. Straight or reverse polarity is a DC welder thing and not an issue with your AC welder. And moisture/dampness is an issue with 70 series rods. Many qualified weld procedures used in industry limit the time a low hydrogen rod can be out of a freshly opened container or out of a rod oven.
What are the thicknesses of the parts you are trying to weld? If it is thin material, get some smaller rods like 3/32" or 1/16", which will run at lower amperage ranges. Weld electrodes are not a one size fits all for best results. 3/32", and making multiple passes for heavy material, is more universal than having 1/8" rod, if you only want to have one rod around in my opinion. Recommended amperage ranges are often on the packaging. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29655 |
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I keep 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" and 3/16" rods here for my purposes, Wire feed has .030 steel wire on CO2 cover gas, aluminum is also heavy at .035 with Argon cover gas. My suitcase welder has a TIG connection port but I have not done any TIG welding or considered a need for it here. It is far cleaner than stick or wire feed but more temperamental as to cleanliness and NO breeze. I predominantly use 7018 for nearly everything, wire on clean or thinner materials as not so good with that either.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11399 |
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I too think the amperage sounds low.......but I can't get over how ol' Joe is no rookie, he's used this machine successfully before, and others before it???? Is this a really thin repair he's trying to do? Or? And I am FAR from being a good welder.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78002 |
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i have a DC welder and i have used 7018 - 3/32 for 99% of the jobs in the last 30 years.. You can weld anything from 10 gauge up to 3/4 inch ... multiple passes.
Dont know why Joe needs 1/8 inch rods.. If your welding on 3/8 plate, ok... if thinner than that you should be using 3/32 rod .............. and the amps for 1/8 should be well over 100. Codgers post about aluminum winding should be considered... Sometimes welders that have set for quite a while can get corrosion on the aluminum straps and clamps... Might want to open the cover, loosen the connections and check / clean / retorque. .... also test the OLD WELDER you have to verify you have a good 240v supply ... i blew one leg of a breaker once and had 120v supply and had similar results as you got... but your amps are way LOW.
Edited by steve(ill) - 22 Dec 2022 at 7:55am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8031 |
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Sure sounds like something fishy with the welder not the operator or the rod.
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