WC Timing

I have a 47 WC with a distributor. I have given it a complete tune up. The problem is im getting nothing but fire out of the muffler. Somebody told me I could be off 180 degrees? If that the case what is the process to get it back in line??? Any help would be great.

Same as yesterday

With the number one piston at tdc and the rotor is pointing to a plug wire socket. You wired as number one then proceeded in a clockwise rotation 2 next 4 last is 3? Then rotated distributor as cranking over ? When you finger is over the plug hole the piston will and come.up and blow air you will fill it on your finger keep rotating it will do it again the one that exerts the most force is the one you want to wire from.

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jul 2012 at 6:09am

Did the tractor run before you worked on it? If so did you remove the dist.? Is it a right angle dist like on a WD?  It's not rocket science-- Charlie explained it correctly but I'm wondering how it was befor you worked on it, When you say "fire" does that mean it runs with a flame out the muffler or does it pop "bakefire" when you try to start it? A little more info and we can help you.

Thanks for all the help guys. Its a long story but yes it did start right up before. The governor that was on the tractor to start with was missing the thrust bearing so somebody got me a different governor to replace the one I had. The only problem was it was lock up and ended up  break the gear and weights off. After finding all the pieces I took off the old bearing and replaced it with the original governor. I believe I used the wrong timing hole instead of the bigger hole in the clutch housing. I still have not been able to find the "F" firing mark. The last time it was worked on someone took the time to mark it for me and it seems to be right. As of today I still cant get the tractor to start. Getting spark and getting compression. Have to be getting fuel because I'm getting fire out of the exhaust. I know it has to be with the timing I just don't know where I am going wrong?

can you explain that a little better? Im not quite sure I understand what to do here.

Mitch, there are only 2 up strokes to a cycle on this engine. One is the compression stroke and builds up pressure under you thumb when stuck in the plug hole, the other is the exhaust stroke and the valve is open so no pressure builds up.

Go back up to yesterdays post by Charlie -- read it again -- now that you have told us about working on the govenor you may have that off by a tooth or two, when you get to the part where he tells you to take off the cap and see where the rotor is pointing it may be between two of the cap terminals, just pick one to be no1 and loosen dist and rotate so rotor is dead on with it and call it no1 -- install wires according to fireing order in clockwise order and it should start right up. keep us posted!!

He only needs to find tdc on number one why take the other three plugs out. He has to advance or retard the ignition timing by turning the distributor he could have rolled through tdc.if the exhaust valve isnt off seat before piston starts traveling up then he will get a reduced pressure against his finger.


Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jul 2012 at 6:37pm

in this picture of the crank snout it doesnt look like the pulley bolt is a good indicator of where tdc. it kinda looks like bolt toward ground would be bdc

Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jul 2012 at 7:11pm

Everybody has their own style... I prefer to take 'em ALL out, and then turn it with the hand crank, and put my thumb over the hole.  I DO turn it through both the first 360 and second 360 cycles, just to make sure I can tell the difference between intake/exhaust and compression stroke... because I have had situations where the valves weren't opening properly, and I have found blown gaskets foiling the detection.

Once I've got it figured out, I find the rotor, eyeball the distributor position close, then put one plug in, but I connect the #1 wire to a second plug, and lay it against the block, then slowly pull the engine up to TDC, then rotate the distributor 'till I get spark... then I drop the rest of the plugs in, hook up the wires, and test fire it again.

The element that was disturbed here, was the governor gear and distributor position... probably got it rotated a little bit while doing the governor replacement... and possibly got the distributor coupling flipped 180 degrees when it went all back together... makes for a complex correction, so the important thing to realize, is that what you see in the 'book' for proper positioning may not work... but if you get the orientations all correct fo how it is now setup, it'll work fine.  I recently changed out a magneto on my '48B, and got it 180 degrees off, so I rotated the plug wires to compensate.  I would've taken the time to re-orient, but it's due for more work soon, just had to get it fired up so I could drive it to the other shop, so I left it be.

Probably the best thing, would be to pull the governor gear, make sure the marks are correctly meshed, then check the distributor adapter and rotor, make sure those are all properly oriented, then do the #1 plug/TDC determination, then look at the rotor position, and see if it all falls to factory... correct everything if it doesn't.  Purists would insist that it all be set to the factory orientations, but it's your choice.

My 44 WC the crankshaft pulley set screw points straight down when 1 and 4 are at TDC, but my 34 the set screw points straight up.  My RC engines the screw points straight up too.  Either way it is the easiest indicator to watch as you slowly turn the engine over with the hand crank with all spark plugs out.  As soon as you feel air pushing out around your finger in the spark plug hole, take a look at where the set screw is and it will either be on its way up or on its way down just continue turning with the hand crank until the set screw gets to be pointing straight up or straight down.  Whichever it is it will be no more than a quarter turn from when you start to feel the air pushing out when you are trying to plug the spark plug hole with your finger.

If you want to you can feel the cylinders go through their 4 strokes while turning the engine over with the hand crank.  Right after you feel the air being pushed out on the compression stroke comes the power stroke, there you will feel suction since both valves are closed and the piston is headed down.  Then on the exhaust stroke you will feel nothing as the piston comes up since the exhaust valve is open, likewise on the intake as the piston goes down with the intake valve open.   Then it is back to pushing air out around your finger again on the next compression stroke.

Pull the valve cover off and check that all the valves are moving by truning engine over. Then look at #1 trun engine watch exhaust valve open then intake will close . now watch the piston to come up on TDC then check rotor. This way you can check the valve train out

The crank pully bolt will be straight up, or down depending on,  I've got cranks on the rack both ways but a quick shot of air through the spark plug hole will tell if the cyl is ready to fire or the exh valve is open.  Reguardless the pully bolt orientation is close enough for quick and dirty timeing.

Edited by wi50 - 28 Jul 2012 at 11:35am