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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 3:02pm
Tom,
 That sounds like a good system.
I had a chance to stop and clean up in the shop just a little. Put some lumber and items up in the "never to come down" loft area!  Moved some things around.

The in floor heat is sounding real good when its 35 in the shop! Called local company to get a quote on a boilier and plumbing system.

Trying to lay out the cuts for the stairs. Have to stop and take some time on this.

The risers and treads waiting:

Regards,
 Chris




D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 9:40pm
Folks,
 Cold in the shop! Keep trying to do some things to allow the electrical to begin this weekend.
Layout of the three stringers for the stairs to the loft. 17 steps 11'-0 1/8" total rise, 12'-7" total run. Stairs will be about 38 inches wide. They will impose on the bathroom area. leaving about 6 foot of head room at the head. 
Started the lay out by calculating the length from point of step to point of step x 17 and then used the tape at a angle intersecting this length and marked off at each 12 inch mark. making 16 even spaces. No cumulative error this way. 

Then set up my rube goldberg fancy dancy stair layer outer tool. This worked good because you dont have to line up a mark on the edge. The marks from the previous layout stair points are used to position the next tread, riser marks. (at the point of the pencil) 
A piece of angle strut, a large square, a small square, and two clamps.
9 inch run, 7.79 rise. Will use 2 x 12 for the tread, and 2 x 8 for the riser:

A little busy and dark, but the first prototype was cut on just the ends and set up for display.
 Found that the floor was sloped in width of the stairs about 5/8 inch. Lucky I cut the first one long:

Upper end un finished (cut long to start):

 Will also cut a notch to allow a Pressure treated cleat to be mounted to the concrete, keeping the stringers off the floor just a smidge.

So will adjust the bottoms of each stringer to be level when complete:

Lots of small moves. Thanks for checking in on me!

Regards,
 Chris







Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Nov 2020 at 5:24pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 7:40am
Folks,
 Those were not very good pictures! The lighting was not good. This is kind of like fishing: throw out some bait (pictures) Set back and wait for the bobber to wiggle a little. Maybe a big fish takes it deep maybe some little ones just nibble on the worm and tease you. 
Still fishin' !Smile I need to get off the couch and do something! Burning daylight! Now where is that new lure??
Hoping to get info on insulation final estimate, started on electrical, interior walls framed, and cost estimate on boiler system, yet this week. 
Before we know it it will be syrup season (mid Jan to mid April) and everything goes on hold for 8-12 weeks!
Did have something unusual to report on the leaf guard system. We had slushy wet snow the other day, some of the water from the slush melting on the roof and gutter ran over top of the leaf guard and down the outside of the gutters. I had not seen that coming. Probably wont happen often? But I didnt like water dripping down my neck on the eave sides of the building! Humm?
I feel a nibble!Smile
Thanks for checking in on the old man with the orange tractors!
(still need to get that propane fork lift running too!)
Stairs today, and getting more lumber. 2x4's. I feel like a kid building a tree house! Juts keep throwing sticks up!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 7:53am
Chris,
     It's all looking good. Always enjoy seeing your progress and I often learn something too. Lots of figuring to do on those stairs. Hope you get your heat soon.
     Maybe in your spare time you could hire out as a carpentry consultant. Oh, when IS your spare time?
Russell.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 9:46pm
Folks,
 The stairs have had me in a head lock for days. A carpenter I am not! They would not have fooled around with this stuff like I have. So far the stairs are coming out OK. I did find that the top is 1/2 inch wider than the bottom. That should make it even more fun!
The stringers for the steps are in place.
May get some steps and risers in place tomorrow. Would like to hunt a couple hours also.
Picked up another small load of lumber. Seems to be going somewhere in there!

Stringers were in and out of position several times, noodling things out.

Some cuts

Used some additional layout and simple guide pieces clamped down to do the final outside stringers. I did not like doing them by hand, I am not that steady!


I attempeted to add some 1 x 10 to the outside stringers so that a finished wall could meet with this board. Will see how that works out?


I had forgot how much work is in building stairs! 
Not sure why these pictures are yellow must be that light at night?

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 19 Nov 2020 at 9:49pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:10pm
Looking good Chris!

When you say the top is 1/2" wider... Could you not kick the bottom out by 1/2" ?

I admire your ambition to make your own stairs. Not an easy task! I seem to think here 8" rise is the standard/ code, but that'd really stretch them out I imagine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 6:35am
Strokendiesel002, Folks,
Building a good set of steps can be a challenge for sure. I guess I have built a half a dozen in a life time, which is not many compared to lots of real carpenters!  I am going to have another look at the width dimension and try to compensate if I can. I thought I had it measured several times but really was relying on the truss being straight and the wall I built being plumb. So things are starting to get "fixed" into position, and the changes will have to be adjustments at the top of the opening. Which actually should be easier, if that is where I find the issue. Yes would like to have these just a little closer. Actual stair tread width will be 36-1/2 inches. Would have liked to have 4 foot wide stairs but did not plan well enough.

On the rise/run dimensions. I try to be close to the magic number of the rise plus the run equals 17 inches. Just a old rule of thumb. So I have 7.7 rise plus 9 run = 16.7 or almost 17. :) Should be a comfortable set of steps. The 12 inch tread, well we will see how that feels too. I always go cheap and use 2 x 10's. 

Today is the last day of PA archery season. I may get out this P.M.. Rhett and I scampered out back on the neighbors property last night, but it was way to windy for any deer to move.


The sunset was worth the walk! Nice to see these little men get excited about being in the woodlot.

Back on the shop. I really have enjoyed the space to do a project like these stairs! Nice smooth floor and room to spin these 18 foot 2 x 12 stringers in the room too. Which happened several times.
I have walls to finish adding the girts and the 9x8 OH door to frame out yet. That and the stairs should keep me out of trouble for several hours! The stairs were a request of the electrician too. That will allow us to get up into the high bay area easier for wiring in lights and things. May make provisions for a couple ceiling fans too?

This walk door between Z1 and Z2 still has me guessing. Not sure that most of my travels wont be across the end of the wall close tot he bath room? I will be going to check on things in the bath/ utility room a lot! and my walk door is on the other end of that wall? Humm?

Regards,
 Chris




Edited by Sugarmaker - 20 Nov 2020 at 6:43am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 6:48am
Have set stair stringers several times, biggest issue was getting run/rise correct where would have same depth of steps all the way up and a similar step off the top step to top platform.

Is not so bad really.  Back Block the stringers as a Assembly after set them is fastest way to square them, set a Jack wall from 1/3-1/2 of the Overall length installed and they will not trampoline bounce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 7:31am
hmm.. did I mention I wanted an ELEVATOR to MY loft ?????
guess you lost that memo !!

hehehe

BTW it's cheaper to buy a complete LED shoplight than an electronic ballast for 2 T8s....
yeesh.
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 8:20am
Good work on the stairs Chris, you'll get there. I am not a carpenter or woodworker at all but have contemplated building stairs. Figuring all the geometry required interested me. Making all the cuts straight and square would probably be my downfall!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 7:27pm
looks like a lotta sawing on them runners!,, I'm no Bob Villa carpenter either,,, I would have nailed/screwed a 2X4 to the runners where the steps go (and keeping the full strength of the 2X12)  instead of all that notching,, yea, it looks a lot more professional,, but the simpler I can keep things, the better...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2020 at 9:40pm
Folks,
 Yes many ways to do stairs! These are now done and I will try to post some pictures of the process. Of course I always do things the hard way so I built these from the top down! Yep goofy right? well it actually worked out good. I laid down a tread and then brought the riser up to it.  Found my dimensional difference and compensated for it at the top. All the treads and risers were cut at 36-5/8 long.
The center stringer ties it all together nicely. Yep a lot of cuts. More work too. Slow and careful layout and cutting. The final fit up went very smooth.

The 1 x 10 on the sides should allow what ever wall covering I choose to meet at this edge.

Top step:

The riser had a gap at the bottom and worked good to apply glue on the top and bring it up to meet the tread above:

Coming down, These seem to be a good comfortable set of stairs. Sorry about the lack of elevator Jay!

Applied construction adhesive to all the joints and then used torx screws to secure the parts. 

Did get a good lunch with my brother and several naps in the woods at dusk:

Regards,
 Chris





Edited by Sugarmaker - 20 Nov 2020 at 9:45pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 6:07am
NICE, 'stairway to heaven'....
I know the elevator will be on next year's list , hehehe

I'm stuck playing 'real Life tetris' in my garage as I can't get a contractor to even come out/price the 2nd floor addition, sigh.... winter's going to be very long and boring....
please keep posting pix...

Jealous Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m16ty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 9:46am
If you are planning on something big for storage and shop, at least partition off your shop area, so you don’t have to heat the whole building. The more comfortable you can make your shop area, the better your maintenance program will be. You are more likely to service that tractor if you have a nice place to do it.

On that same note, I wouldn’t want to have a big building with the shop and storage all together. If you have a fire or other natural disaster, I don’t want all my eggs in one basket. I’ve got a shop and several smaller storage sheds, that way if a fire or something happens I don’t loose everything I own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 11:31am
Top notch!

I went back and re-read what caused me to mention the rise, realize I think I misinterpreted - quantity of 12 steps at a 7" rise :)

Can't wait for the next update!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 2:45pm
Folks,
All the eggs in one basket! Yes I do understand that. Another reason I had my insurance guy come to the shop and take a look and review the numbers on the coverage's. Replacement value looks to be adequate and the equipment is now covered under the homeowners policy. Was a inland marine policy. Yes I agree that two building would be ideal. 
The stairs. Wife checked out the loft area ans was pleased. So I guess we have approval to keep going!:)

Today was demo day in the shop! Yep haven't even got it done and started tearing things apart. I had a problem with not having a door near the bathroom. (North east corner of Z1. I have felt this might be the highest traffic flow in the building. So I just cut in a new doorway. Still leaves me 12 + feet of wall space on that east wall. It also solves the issue of windows in that wall. If I get doors with glass in them I then have windows! I may leave the other walk door at the south east corner for a while and see how it is utilized too.

Some framing to get the feel:

A sawzall and a few cuts to remove the sill, Added another anchor screw  through the Pressure treated sill, into the floor for the short wall section.

Walked over to check on the neighbors progress and took this on the way back.

Regards,
 Chris


 


Edited by Sugarmaker - 21 Nov 2020 at 2:46pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 2:54pm
that's a neat picture of the buildings you have to be HAPPY....
hmm.
cupola... gotta get a cupola and a Mapleleaf weathervane on 'our' new garage...

oh yeah SOLID blocking supports for the handrails up to my loft, seeing how the elevator's not installed , yet.....

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 3:33pm
Jay,
Thanks for all the suggestions! I do like the maple weather-vane idea! Yes I am happy with how it is starting to fit in to the neighborhood. Also really nice to have a place to work on the remaining portions of the building too!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 3:52pm
yeesh, best be sitting down when looking at copper ML weathervanes !! Quik google, entry level ones are $500 USD !!!! I'm thinking I need to startup a business !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave in PA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 3:58pm
When ya got to go, ya got to go!  Not look for the door! Or ya might have a clean-up on the floor! LOL

Edited by Dave in PA - 21 Nov 2020 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 8:20am
Dave, Folks,
Yea the additional hole in the wall worked well all day yesterday. I think its a keeper. I worked on putting up the remaining wood that I had bought a couple days ago. Neighbor said wood prices are back down at the big box stores. That's a good thing! I probably need another batch of 2 x 4's for additional framing in the bathroom area.  Also a little more work above the center of the small overhead door for the hardware to mount. 
Trying to decide if the area under the stairs can be utilized to hold more junk, I mean stuff!Smile Access could be from the bathroom or from the Z1 area where the big sink might go?
Nic is scheduled to start wiring today. I am going to put in four sofit lights in each eave. These will light the door ways and provide some decorative lighting to match the HOA requirements too!Wink

Weather is cool and drizzly today. Hope things are good in Orange land!

Regards,
 Chris


D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 8:26am
Jay, Folks,
 found this one:

Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 8:28am
hmm under staircase area... makes a good spot for an aircompressor...
maybe a closet for coats,coveralls,work gloves, shelf to put wallet/rings on...cellphone ,on charger ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 9:26am
Jay, folks,
 No this is the lower portion under the stairs, like a cubby hole maybe 2 foot square by 3 foot deep on the floor zone. Maybe a sliding bin drawer? Yea like I would ever get that done!Smile I have lots of great ideas its the follow through that usually doesn't happen!

Looking at used boilers on Facebook Market Place. Any comments? Found a Lennox brand 140K BTU unit PWB-5D. Cost is very reasonable. My guess is I would have $2K into a the boiler and all the plumbing and accessories and chimney too. But that would be a potential cost avoidance of about $4K over the wall unit that I was quoted from RHT. Would probably have to find a new home outside the bath/ utility area too?
The cost difference could pay for the majority of my insulation for the building too. Just thinking out loud, which I do a lot of!
Regards.
Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 1:34pm
Wouldn't a hot water heater, pump and thermostat work just as well and be lot's cheaper?  If you want gas I believe they are now vented thru the wall.  I have electric and it don't seem to be expensive to run but it's not heating a floor!  A tankless water heater might even be workable.  Just thoughts wandering around  in my head.

On the steps I was anticipating you would router the side stringers for the steps.  It just seemed like your sort of detail!Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 3:32pm
Whoever did the PEX design/layout will KNOW what size the boiler/heat source has to be. Yes smaller systems can use a water heater and circ pump. up here basic ,entry level 'water heater' is about 40K BTUs. Tankless probably not a good choice. Never heard of any infloor systems using them.
Now if you could capture the excess heat from making syrup...and plumb that into the floor........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 7:22pm
Allis guys,
The folks who designed the floor system (RHT) recommended a 140K BTU boiler system. This is of course a new high efficiency Combi wall mount unit. If I can get the donations that is what I would like to have. I found a used boiler (20 year old) Lennox. Called the guy and he recommended saving money for a new one. The wall mounted units take up a lot less space and venting is simpler through PVC. He felt by the time the old one was installed and used it would be just as much cost. I was surprised at his answer. But I do know we have had real good luck with the high efficiency furnace in the house. and don't seem to use a lot more fuel than when we were burning wood as the primary and the old  propane furnace was the back up. 

On a more positive note Nic wired in the lights in the sofit and added real switches!



The results. He is going to put these on a dusk to dawn timer plus on/off switch.
Lots of functional light in a small package.

Regards,
 Chris




Edited by Sugarmaker - 22 Nov 2020 at 7:30pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8166
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 8:01pm
Folks that like orange stuff,
Opps forgot, since I can get in the loft easier. Here is the view. I started to pack rat stuff in the scissor truss rafters already!

The 2 x 12's (spares) will be used as walk boards if we (Nic) needs to get up in the trusses during the wiring phase.

Left to right. WD45, WZ, Nics WD, WD wide front, and the D17 is out of sight under me.

Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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JohnColo View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Apr 2020
Location: Niwot, CO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 9:57pm
Moving right along Chris!  Looks like you better start designing your addition as it looks like the shop is already full.
Jay, a friend of mine built a house for his folks probably 30 years ago, used a little wall mount heater for the whole house, maybe 1500 Sq Ft.  Worked fine as far as I know.
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Location: Centerburg, OH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sherman Farms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 10:24pm
We have a tankless peopane hot water heater in our 64x48 shop for ten years. It runs very little and we keep shop at 60 degrees all winter ..Once the concrete gets warm it takes just a few cycles a day to maintain your temperature.
B, C, RC, 3 wc,2 wd,3 wd45, d15, d17, d19, d21, 190, 440, 7040, 918 backhoe, 12 roto balers, 7 60 combines, 40, 66,2 72,90 super, sp100, Gleaner E, F3, 3 L2, R62, and much more
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