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My B won't turn over!

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Syslogv4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 10:47am
I put it all back together and it's doing what it did the first time, turns over easily with the plugs out but not easily with them in. I tried the starter and it will turn it over twice with the plugs in then stops.
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Bill Long View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 10:56am
GREAT!!! Love to hear my favorite running again/
Dick L,  You are the best.  Sorry I will never get to meet you.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 11:01am
Take the plugs out and spin it over a while with the plugs out after putting more oil in the cylinders.  Check for oil pressure while it is spinning over.  If you don't see oil pressure you need to prime the pump and do the same again. You need fresh oil everywhere it needs oil.

 
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 2:09pm
Keep the battery charged. It will need all it's juice to get her to spin and start. If you can get her running then let her run as it will loosen up the more it runs.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:06pm
It is building pressure but the starter won't turn it over more than once or twice with all of the plugs in. If I remove one plug, it'll turn over fine with the starter... Doesn't matter which plug I remove. Also, even though I've rewired it and have power to the coil, it doesn't have any spark.
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:38pm
Do you have a distributor or magneto?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chalmersbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:52pm
Did you use heavy enough wire for the battery cable? 0 or 00, no # 2 or lighter.
If it is now turning over it should be safe to pull start it. 
Do as Dick said, oil in the cylinder will make it turn over easier, but don't fill the cylinders as that will also lock up the pistons when you try to spin it. Best to put oil in the spin it withe plugs out before installing the and towing it. LOL Bob
4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 3:46am
I do have #2 battery cables. I couldn't find any 0 at the pets store. Although it did come with #2 when I got it and I never had any issues with it. It's a distributor and converted to 12v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 7:21am
A lot of good advice here. I would try the following and if it doesn't work then you can sell it.... If ever you suspect water/coolant in motor, drain oil out first fully, refill with good oil, you may see how much water comes out from the pan and may be able to save the oil while it runs a while and then change it and filter later.
The rings likely stuck from water in exhaust or condensation.(once its fixed again, best to start it every couple months or so....
best way to limber up is to use pb blaster or seafoam in spark plug holes and let it soak. use a half a can+ on all 4 cyls. If you drained the oil all out plug the pan now. keep plugs out. next remove rocker cover. let sit a day or two.
next crank engine over by hand and ensure all valves move up and down well when you do so, look for a stuck valve, some left over lube might come out plug holes, if it turns easier then drain pan again add new oil and crank with the starter plugs out. if still stiff, you could spray more blaster in plug holes with oil in pan and tow it around for a mile or two till it loosens up.
the spark issue is probably corroded points or bad ground to points?,with key on use a screwdriver to open.close points while seeing if you get any coil spark... it could also be your coil....if you get some spark, try to clean them up or get a new points set. some people never say to wire wheel or emery cloth them... hey if it gets you spark you can replace them later, I like bead blasting them myself. good luck,
pound per pound one of the toughest, best tractors ever made.....
sounds like you are in a humid area that has a lot of dew...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tcmtech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Syslogv4 Syslogv4 wrote:

I do have #2 battery cables. I couldn't find any 0 at the pets store. Although it did come with #2 when I got it and I never had any issues with it. It's a distributor and converted to 12v

Got a volt meter?

If so, what's your battery terminal and starter terminal voltage when trying to crank it over. 

You may have a weak battery, bad cable connection or a near dead starter (stuck brush maybe) if its not cranking over on a 12 volt conversion. 
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 10:46am
Just for grins and giggles, look inside the inspection hole for the clutch. Mice can drag in an unbelievable amount of stuff if there's enough of them. One good big mouse condo could be preventing the flywheel from turning easily.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 4:02pm
This afternoon I went out to try to figure out why I wasn't getting any spark. I hooked up a multimeter to the alternator and hand cranked the engine. I got nothing. Is there a way to test it without having a good battery? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy a battery?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 7:09pm
Jumper cables
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syslogv4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 7:24pm
Even with jumper cables it has trouble turning over unless the plugs are out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 8:10pm
I say starter is the trouble. My 8N was that way, then one day it just gave up the ghost. $20 later I had it rebuilt and to this day it runs like a new one! There was about 1/2 cup of dirt and corrosion came out of the thing when I took it apart. I put in new brushes and springs, and polished the armature a little bit. 

But speaking of engines being stuck, a friend of mine had a stuck WD45 a few years ago. He tried everything to get it unstuck, and nothing worked. One day his cousin (Huge guy, about 6'7", 300 lbs, and strong as heck) came over and said, "Gimme that crank!" He put the crank in, and jerked up once, lifting the front of the WD45 up off the ground in the process, and it broke the engine free! They hooked the battery up and it started right up! Been running it for several years now. 


Edited by CrestonM - 03 Oct 2016 at 8:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tcmtech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by CrestonM CrestonM wrote:

 

But speaking of engines being stuck, a friend of mine had a stuck WD45 a few years ago. He tried everything to get it unstuck, and nothing worked. One day his cousin (Huge guy, about 6'7", 300 lbs, and strong as heck) came over and said, "Gimme that crank!" He put the crank in, and jerked up once, lifting the front of the WD45 up off the ground in the process, and it broke the engine free! They hooked the battery up and it started right up! Been running it for several years now. 

Some years ago I got a buddies old Farmall M that sat  outside for 20+ years unstuck with a 3 foot pipe wrench on the crankshaft and 12 volts to the starter followed by rocking it back and forth in 5th gear with a skidsteer chained to the draw bar until the engine would make a full turn without excessive binding.  

After it was loose we put in new plugs and ignition related components, cleaned out the carburetor and fuel line, changed fluids and drove the old thing around for a good hour without it missing a beat!  As far as I know he still runs it now and then and it has yet to ever give him trouble.     Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 10:28pm
I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 4:26am
Originally posted by Gerald J. Gerald J. wrote:

I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.

Is it stuck if it spins with the plugs out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Syslogv4 Syslogv4 wrote:

Even with jumper cables it has trouble turning over unless the plugs are out.

Your question was how to check for spark. If it spins with the plugs out then check for spark with the plugs out with jumper cables. 
However you can check for spark without spinning the engine using only a screwdriver. With power to the coil, open and close the points. 
With a probe light check for power entering the coil, then check the coil out, if power there then check at the wire at the points. If you have power and opening and closing the points does not produce a spark you have either bad points or the points are insulated from ground. If you do not have power out of the coil you have closed points or you have a shorted out condenser.  Or at least a short to ground from a bare wire or something. Could be where the wire goes thru the distributor.    
 If you do not get power out of the coil with power going in then remove the wire from the out side of the coil and check for power. If no power out get a different coil.

When I was buying dead tractors I took a jump battery, a #14 wire with a clip on each end, a screwdriver  and a can of starting fluid. I clipped onto the coil from the jumper pack with the wire and clipped the jumper pack ground to the tractor. I then used the screwdriver to check for spark.   If I had spark I jumped to the starter and shot starting fluid into the carburetor to see if they would run at all. 


Edited by Dick L - 04 Oct 2016 at 7:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corbinstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 7:10am
have you tried pull starting it in 3rd gear?
if it starts that way,  then you might just need a starter as the starter can drag your voltage down enough that it won't start....

Otherwise, points, condensor, coil.  
key on:  voltage to the coil, voltage to the points with the points open... 
none with the points closed.  
if voltage to the points with them open AND none with them closed, then it should run as long as the coil secondary is good.
otherwise clean your points, or jump the battery to the coil....  or both.
Don't spend much time with the points closed and the engine not running as that can burn something up..... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tcmtech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Gerald J. Gerald J. wrote:

I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.

It depends on how stuck the piston is and how much force is used to try and break it free in relation to how stoutly built the individual components are. Ermm

For a reference during the power stroke a typical engine can easily see peak cylinder pressure 7 - 8 times its cranking pressure which even on a low compression engine could easily be 500+ PSI  http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm

Multiply that by the piston area and even  a small engine like what B has is still seeing at least two tons of force being put on a connecting rod during every power stroke at high loads without doing damage. 

To take it further given the ~1 3/4 inches of  leverage that works out to a minimum peak crankshaft torque of at least ~ 600 foot pounds at 90 degrees from TDC. 

So can a push rod or crankshaft be bent by forcing them?  
Yep. Obviously it happens all the time but not from a guy using the hand crank nor the starter, not even likely by dragging the tractor in high gear, working against a dead locked engine.  
Even less likely so if multiple pistons are stuck being some of the connecting rods would be under tension while others are under compression even if they were all only a few degrees off TDC or BDC where the crankshaft would have maximum mechanical advantage. 




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