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Early 190 ring gear bad spot
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Early 190 ring gear bad spot
    Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 4:50pm
Smile Newby and just bought a 190 gas SN 1364. First tractor and already I love it.
The guy I bought it from started it up and drove it on my hauler, after I started it  few times and moved it around a little, it tore up the starter drive on a 4 to 6 inch section of bad teeth on the ring gear. Although the starter looked brand new, I ordered and replaced the entire thing to make sure I had the correct starter on it and it has now torn up the new drive after a half dozen starts which I expected would happen.  I have reordered just the drive this time.
I would like to replace the ring gear but cannot find the part anywhere and it looks like I might have a problem finding one.  In Nov., "tbran" posted this on this site ...."70245766 was the ring gear and pinion that fit the 190 prior to sn 8250  and the late d19's."
I'm hoping someone can tell me how much of a problem I've got here and advise me on the best way to obtain (or fix) the ring gear....If I can find one. I'm pretty green when it comes to tractors but I'm aware that it will involve removing the motor and/or splitting the beast.....or just keep throwing starter drives in it.
It has decent rubber,a good 3 point, good compression, runs, shifts,drives and stops well after some basic maintenance....points, plugs, wires, belt, carb cleaning,  gas tank  removal and cleaning, engine oil and hydraulic fluid change, and all gauges replaced with vintage AC gauges. It hasn't popped out of gear even with a heavy (20,000lb +) load pushing it downhill, like I hear some tend to do.
I paid $3500 thinking it was a good price but would have liked to have known about this ring gear issue Ouch.
I'm recently retired, enjoy wrenching, and like this old stuff.  I know it's not an XT Diesel but............
........... enough already ( - I'm also kinda long wind-ed.)
Thanks for listenin'
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DiyDave View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53592 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 4:55pm
All motors stop at about the same 4 places.  If you can't find a new one, just heat remove ring gear, and move it about 15º.  some are reversible, too...
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Don(MO) View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 5:29pm
This part #70245766 is for the ring gear and pinion shaft that is in the trans/rear-end.      74020211is the part number for the ring gear that is on the flywheel. Yes the tractor will need to be split and flywheel removed to replace ring gear. I'd look at the clutch assy at the same time as you will have it off too.
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 6429 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 5:51pm
First of all welcome to the Forum. Check DJS Tractor Parts (vendor on this Forum) and look under 190 parts, I think on page 13, and you will find the ring gear listed. Tony's Tractors and OK Tractor probably have them also.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 5:57pm
Thanks Dave, good to know !
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 5:59pm
Thanks again guys !
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Originally posted by Don(MO) Don(MO) wrote:

This part #70245766 is for the ring gear and pinion shaft that is in the trans/rear-end.      74020211is the part number for the ring gear that is on the flywheel. Yes the tractor will need to be split and flywheel removed to replace ring gear. I'd look at the clutch assy at the same time as you will have it off too.


100% correct!  Tbran was talking about the transmission and rear end, not the engine ring gear.  The tractor is pretty easy to split behind the engine, just be sure it is well supported on each end.  I also like to replace the input seal at the front of the torque tube while I am in there.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 6:30pm
Awesome...with the correct part number things are lookin up, djs does show the part with good description, I think I'll call and see if it's in inventory or readily available b4 ordering.
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 6:56am
Originally posted by DiyDave DiyDave wrote:

All motors stop at about the same 4 places.  If you can't find a new one, just heat remove ring gear, and move it about 15º.  some are reversible, too...


Good to know there are options....
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 7:46am
Before I do this...
just wondering if there is anything specific to watch for that may have caused the ring gear damage in the first place. It's 50 some years old and maybe normal wear but I wonder about things like ....
is the heat expansion installation of the new ring pretty straight forward, the I&T shop manual hardly mentions it...
do I have the correct or a good quality starter. I trusted the sales staff at All States Ag to get me the right one. Wasn't terribly confident in them after this first experience with them on this and several other items purchased. About all I know is it's a Reman Delco Style 4201. Do I have the right starter drive "throw" ....distance from the mounting face, the right grade of steel  or number of teeth on the drive gear.  When it wasn't on the bad spot it seemed to do great....
I'd hate to get this guy back together and have it happen again because I missed something.
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Fred in Pa View Drop Down
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Points: 9210 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 7:50am


Best to order a Rear crank seal Kit ,I never remove flywheel on one of these and NOT replace Seal and wear sleeve. The rear seal rides on a wear sleeve on fly wheel.
He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 8:22am
Yeah, will do !
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Points: 5636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 10:38am
It is easy for a starter shop to put the wrong drive on the starter shaft. One with fewer teeth won't engage the ring gear solidly and will be quicker at damaging the ring gear. Same thing on the travel. It is hard to see whether the drive is the right one access is poor.

Gerald J.
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Jamz View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 10:56am
Agreed...those are my concerns too, I know there are 9 and 10 tooth drives out there....will poke around to see if info for correct match up is available...
could maybe get a measurement for travel with the tractor split to compare to starter?
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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Points: 11693 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 11:17am
"All motors stop at about the same 4 places. If you can't find a new one, just heat remove ring gear, and move it about 15º. some are reversible, too..."

That would be three places on an inline 6. Two on a four cylinder; 4 for a V8
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