Injection Pump specialists?

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   Not an Allis but a Kubota. Have a Kubota 3 cyl tractor (M6030) that has a rotary pump on it, not sure on the brand, but was going to look later on if it matters. It has always been a great starter until 2 years ago, when it would intermittently be real stubborn about starting when it got below about 40F. Gets worse as it gets colder, and has gotten worse as time goes on. Most times a small sniff of ether will get it going, but there have been times when it was necessary to pull start it, which can be a real pain when it gets icy. Has good compression, because it will lock up if you put too much ether to it. Have to be real sparing with that stuff.      We've now narrowed it down to if you turn it off with the key(electric solenoid), it will (likely) be a real b1tch to start, but use the manual shut off( and then turn the key off), and it will normally start well. 
     It has glow plugs, but they are a cold weather start aid only, not needed for day to day starting. Like I said, this thing use to be a real good starter. Cycle the plugs twice, and you're good to -25C. Battery is good as well.
	For quite a few years, using the key to shut it off, it stutters to a stop, not immediate like it use to, or like the manual stop still provides. 
	I personally think the tractor is kind of lazy too. Granted it's on winter fuel, but it seems lazy to me. Any thoughts?

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joe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: SW Ontario Points: 154	Post Options Post Reply Quote joe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Injection Pump specialists? Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 12:55pm
	Not an Allis but a Kubota. Have a Kubota 3 cyl tractor (M6030) that has a rotary pump on it, not sure on the brand, but was going to look later on if it matters. It has always been a great starter until 2 years ago, when it would intermittently be real stubborn about starting when it got below about 40F. Gets worse as it gets colder, and has gotten worse as time goes on. Most times a small sniff of ether will get it going, but there have been times when it was necessary to pull start it, which can be a real pain when it gets icy. Has good compression, because it will lock up if you put too much ether to it. Have to be real sparing with that stuff. We've now narrowed it down to if you turn it off with the key(electric solenoid), it will (likely) be a real b1tch to start, but use the manual shut off( and then turn the key off), and it will normally start well. It has glow plugs, but they are a cold weather start aid only, not needed for day to day starting. Like I said, this thing use to be a real good starter. Cycle the plugs twice, and you're good to -25C. Battery is good as well. For quite a few years, using the key to shut it off, it stutters to a stop, not immediate like it use to, or like the manual stop still provides. I personally think the tractor is kind of lazy too. Granted it's on winter fuel, but it seems lazy to me. Any thoughts?

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farmtoybuilder Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Dresden,Ohio Points: 1457	Post Options Post Reply Quote farmtoybuilder Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:32pm
	Block heater at that temperature for sure! & Working Glow Plugs! an Most CCA battery! And not stopping is normally bad key switch. And sometimes electric shut off it's self goes bad. Check the Grounds also! Edited by farmtoybuilder - 16 Jan 2017 at 3:34pm
	5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.

DiyDave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 53587	Post Options Post Reply Quote DiyDave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:19pm
	Hmm, where to start... First, actually check the compression, with a glow plug port tester. While the plugs are out, check the resistance on each, as well as the connections, to the supply wire, and the connection, at each plug to the buss bar. THose little funky flat head screwdriver nuts have a rep, for vibrating loose. Last, and most important, STOP USING ETHER on a Kubota motor, it is not a big american diesel, with loads of aluminum in the piston tops. What commonly happens when using ether in these engines, is to break piston rings, or blow the piston tops, into the bottom of the oil pan... If you want specific answers, specs, torque values, compression values, etc, go to the kubota forum, a separate entity, guys over there are pretty helpful. http://www.orangetractortalks.com/

joe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: SW Ontario Points: 154	Post Options Post Reply Quote joe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:24pm
	Should add that this is the case even after plugging it in for 6+ hours. The engine is very warm to the touch, but still doesn't make a difference to whether it starts or not. It would never start with this condition without plugging it in.

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8537	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:39pm
	You must have a"no fuel" situation at the pump if it won't fire off warm.

Stan R Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 987	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stan R Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:41pm
	Maybe not, but when was the last time you cleaned the fuel bowl and replaced the fuel filter(s)/ air filter? Edited by Stan R - 16 Jan 2017 at 6:42pm

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5078	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:44pm
	Take the solenoid out, and remove the plunger and see if that helps. Is this a CAV style pump? The pump style does matter when we're trying to diagnose it. I'm no Kubota expert, but it looks like some of them use a Japanese version of the Lucas CAV DPA pump. Might say Nihon, Mikuni, or ?? The shut off solenoid may be tired and drawing more amps to energize, or a relay/switch in the electrical system is causing problems.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

joe Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: SW Ontario Points: 154	Post Options Post Reply Quote joe Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 12:16pm
	I'm not with the tractor right now, but I've gotten some one else to look at it, and they can't find any numbers on it. He sent me a picture, and it does look exactly like a Lucas CAV DPA pump.