Synthetic oil

Synthetic oil concept of suspending the bad particles so the filter can safely remove them, thus making the oil last longer I can understand, but it synthetic oil really beneficial in a 2 stroke, since it's just getting burned? 

kinda spensive that way isn't it Les?

Wrong on number 2, VFDfireman. Castrol did claim their super refined mineral oil base stocks were "synthetic", but I think they've switched to engineered base stocks now. Correct on the other two. As for two cycle. AMSOIL makes two stroke synthetics. How much does it matter when you consider that it goes through the engine once and is then burned and exhausted? I dunno.

Good or bad I always used the good stuff in the rice burner and continue to use it in the chain saws, blowers and line trimmers.

My take on Paul's comment: It does make a difference. I like to know what I'm getting. As to what VFDfireman said, there is some truth in that some claimed synthetics aren't really synthetic. The biggest scam out there, IMO, is "synthetic blend" oils. Test have shown these blends to be as little as 10% synthetic and are little or no better than non-synthetic oils. My problem with store brands is that I don't know what I'm getting.

I currently have 3 different kinds of oil on the shelf. The highest priced stuff is Motorcraft Synthetic Blend, then Mobil Super, then Formula Shell that I got on sale for $1.49 a quart. And they all say "meets or exceeds API service SN" Now if one "REALLY" exceeds this API service, I'd think they wouldn't hesitate to brag about it, but since none of them do, I assume one is no better than the other. They all claim on the bottle to eliminate engine deposits, anti-foam, ect. ect. ect


Edited by Les Royer - 20 May 2015 at 5:38pm

It's really hard to say anything more than what standard the oil meets. If it meets "SN" what more can you say, other than it meets some standard higher than SN. If a higher recognized standard doesn't exist, you can't invent this new standard yourself.

There are other ASTM tests that the oil companies put their products through, but this are Greek to the average buyer so you won't find them listed on the bottle.

If you look through the AMSOIL web pages carefully, you can find the results of other ASTM tests they put their oils through. Occasionally you will find a comparison. The 4-ball wears test (I forget the ASTM number) looks especially good for their 5W-30 oil.

BTW, I looked up "synthetic blend" and found that no synthetic blend motor oil contains more than 30% synthetic. They are using marketing schlock.

synthetic oil runs cooler,cleaner. I 've used only Klotze 4 years..

I've been retired from NYSDOT for about a year now. For the past several years, they have used recycled oil in all engines except new equipment that called for a special oil during the warranty period. When the warranty expired, everything went to recycled oil.

I have NEVER seen an engine failure in any of their equipment that could be attributed to oil, other than engines which the oil pan rusted through and ran low, or empty on oil.

These engines get regular oil changes and maintenance, which I think is much more important than the quality of the oil.

Unless the manufacturer recommends synthetic oil, I personally, think it's a waste of money.

Oil pans rust from the outside in, especially for snow plow/ salt trucks out here in New England.

Edited by Stan R - 20 May 2015 at 9:11pm

One of the main benefits of a good synthetic oil is their ability to withstand higher temps with out coking things up (how good is the radiator and how clean are the cooling passages in your old tractor?).

The second is that a dino oil that is rated a 10w-30 will become more like a 10w-20 oil after 50 hours of work.  This won't happen with a good synthetic.

None of the above really applies to a 2 cycle engine, however.  Considering that the only lube a 2 cycle engine's bearings get is what is mixed in the gas, I would get 2 cycle oil from a very reputable supplier.

I personally use Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40 oil in everything I have except a newer car that is still on warranty.  That covers everything from my old Simplicity diesel garden tractor to my 2003 Corvette to my 1977 I/O boat to my 15 year old motor home, to my Allis B-10.  I also changed some older used vehicles (1977 IH Scout) over to Mobil 1 oils without any issues.


If you really want to know how good your oil is, send a sample to Blackstone Labs.  For $35 you can find out what's going on in your engine, what the viscosity was, and how much TBN is left (the ability to neutralize combustion acids).

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-analysis.php 

WF owner wrote: I've been retired from NYSDOT for about a year now. For the past several years, they have used recycled oil in all engines except new equipment that called for a special oil during the warranty period. When the warranty expired, everything went to recycled oil. I have NEVER seen an engine failure in any of their equipment that could be attributed to oil, other than engines which the oil pan rusted through and ran low, or empty on oil. These engines get regular oil changes and maintenance, which I think is much more important than the quality of the oil. Unless the manufacturer recommends synthetic oil, I personally, think it's a waste of money.

Engine failure is one thing. Premature engine wear is another. Some people are happy when they get 100K from an engine. I'm not. I traded my Toyota in back in 2001 with 118K miles on it and I thought that was outstanding. When I traded that car it used a quart every 2500 miles. I used Quaker State 10W-40 and Fram filters every 5K miles. With the next car I used AMSOIL 5W-30 and top grade AMSOIL filters. I changed that oil every year if it needed it or not. The car was typically driven 18K miles a year. AMSOIL claims their oil is good for one year or 25K miles. I sold that car to my co-worker when it had 217K miles on it and it now has about 260K miles on it. The new owner continues to use AMSOIL 5W-30 and changes it yearly. The car does not use any oil. Would that car be in the shape it is in if I used a lesser oil? I don't think so.

My new car is a BMW diesel and BMW demands synthetic oil. Most new cars today demand the same. I get free maintenance while the car is in warranty. They use BMW synthetic, which is Castrol Edge Extended Life motor oil and it gets changed every 10K miles. When the car is out of warranty I plan on switching to AMSOIL Low SAPS European grade oil, as AMSOIL recommends.

BTW, WF Owner, how often did they change that re-refined oil? The labor involved with each additional change would probably be almost made up for in savings just by using a high quality oil and doing fewer changes.

i'm thinkin...a Freightliner mechanic told me that the new trucks are running that synthetic, and recommend oil changes at 100,000. miles now.

I don't endorse this at all:

My grandfather owned a 2000 Impala that he bought with 75k miles. He didn't have the money keep safe tires on it, but we were able to do that. He was supposed to have the oil done, but he never did. He went 30,000 miles between changes... twice. That's right- from 120k miles to 180k miles, he had one change done in the middle. That car made it to 217k miles. After he passed, we sold the car to an auto rebuilder who wanted the body and transmission. The head gasket was going bad, there was oil in the coolant, and what came out of the pan looked worse than Elvis Presley's autopsy. I dumped used oil from one of our trucks in there- it at least sort of looked like oil. We drove the car 30 miles to the buyer- 30 miles down the highway. I was puffing white smoke, but the engine still ran.

The point- any engine should make 200k miles if it's taken care of. Heck- that poor 3400 was abused most of it's life- and it still got there. That said, I would keep clean oil and a good filter in a car before I would worry about the brand.

Now, please, don't try to replicate what my grandfather did.

427435 wrote: DougS wrote:   BTW, WF Owner, how often did they change that re-refined oil? The labor involved with each additional change would probably be almost made up for in savings just by using a high quality oil and doing fewer changes. Fewer oil changes look better and better the older my body gets!!!!

I know the oil change interval on large (tandem) dumps is 15,000 miles. I'm not sure what construction equipment and smaller trucks are.