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HD11E steering issue |
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Hey Guys. new to this forum but I have been following for about a year. I have a fiat-allis hd11e, ser. no. 11600, engine 10000 turbo. Wet clutch, wet brakes, direct drive, wet steering clutches. I have had a steering issue for some time. First thought it was a faulty pump and changed that. No help. Someone told me to put atf in it and it steered for about 2 hrs and quit. Cleaned suction filter and it steered for 1 hr. Finally figured out fluid was so contaminated that after 1 hr run time suction filter clogged again. Cleaned filter again and steered for 1 hr. You can almost time it every time. Decided to change atf fluid again to get clean fluid in it. So 400 dollars worth of atf is now in buckets. After changing fluid this time it steered for about 3 hrs before it clogged filter. After that it was back on the 1 hr schedule. No big chunks just real fine metal shavings that you can barely feel between fingers. So my question is
, is there any way to truly flush this stuff out once and for all? steering clutches, bevel gear and tranny all run in this sump. somebody surely has had this prob before. HELP
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gemdozer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1010 |
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Your brake band should be in bad condition and you will have to draine the cuch housing
and clained all the lines and streaner
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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The right brake is a little sketchy. The adjusting bolt is loose even after trying to tighten it and the pedal goes to floor. Do I pull whole clutch pack to replace brake bands. How do I get all the metal shavings out of the system.
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gemdozer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1010 |
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Yes you need to removed the stering cluch ass. for changing the brake band and clean the bottom stering cluch housing and if you can removed the suction line from the steaner to the housing.
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Once I get assembly out what should I look for in the way of steering clutch disc wear. Is there a stack height or just obvious visual wear? I don't want to have to do this again anytime soon.
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gemdozer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1010 |
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I am't sure but the stering cluch ass. height should be 4.218"
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Mactractor ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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Extremely rare for the oil clutches to need attention. As Hector says, the brake linings are the things that DO need replacing. They deteriate and clog the whole clutch hydraulic system
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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It does steer good once I clean the suction strainer. I just wasn't sure how to thoroughly clean the system. Could I run some diesel through it? If so do I do that with engine running or not, and how long. That would flow through tranny pump and steering pump. Don't wanna mess up.
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Mactractor ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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You mentioned fine metal shavings. How much had accumulated on the magnetic drain plugs in trans housing and bevel gear housing
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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The first time there was quite a bit on the b gear plug. It felt real slick and you could hardly feel that it was metal shavings. It lookedlike little spikes sticking off the magnet but it was soft if that makes any sense. There is no mag. in trans. I haven't had this machine very long and have no idea if previous owner ever changed fluid
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Mactractor ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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Sounds like accumulation on bevel gear plug is just normal wear. The screen and filter blockages are likely to be small chunks of brake linings which break down with age. When you have the clutch and brake assemblies both out, and the top off the bevel gear housing, you can flush those compartments out thoroughly. At that stage, put a lever bar beside bevel gear to check for movement. There should be none.
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Ok guys. Thanks for the help. Gonna be awhile before I can tackle this. Supposed to snow tomorrow. Hopefully I can handle this as I am pretty much by myself on these projects. Thanks again.
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kinghunter ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Location: Kansas/Missouri Points: 408 |
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razor i have figured out that I feel pretty good about tackling any project with the knowledge these guys on this forum have.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33675 |
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I have a HD7G that pretty well mirrored your issues, as to the brake with no adjustment, you will probably find the band broken or a pin sheared allowing the adjustment to not function, as for steering are you using the brakes or relying on the steering clutch release to make it turn? Have to use both unless pushing fairly hard with blade down.
Mine turned out to first have clogged filters/strainers, next was a weak pump, later was bad hydraulic release piston seals, third a broken brake band and last blown hydraulic hoses. So far I am good to go until the next failure after I get tired of rehanging thrown tracks! |
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Mactractor ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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While reading Dave`s post which reassures us that these ol girls will never be boring for us to play with, I realized I had forgot to mention another common cause of the blockages - deteriation of the rubber hoses throughout the system. Small chunks of rubber breaking away from the inner walls of the hoses, solved by renewing all rubber hosing from suction point to control valves, if it looks like that has not been done for a long time
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Dmiller as far as turning, if I am going uphill or pushing something it turns very well without using brake. If going downhill or on level I have to use brake. And yes mactractor, the hoses from cartridge filters back appear to be original. I have the service manual for steering clutch and brake ass. So I think that will help alot.
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Since you guys are so helpful maybe one of you can tell me what year this beast is. Ser. no. 11600. Couldn't find any exact info. Not a big deal. Just curious. I assume it is '74 or newer bcause it is fiat.
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Also I think I saw on here at one time that " Truck Parts " in Springfield Mo. could reline brakes. Also need driveshaft brake relined. Anybody heard this also?
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Sorry at beginning I said 10000 turbo engine I meant 11000
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33675 |
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You may want to contact them first or call a Cat dealer as to who they use for wet brake lining. And these old monsters require brake to turn when not pushing. So long as clutches work for steer during pushes then they don't need work, just the brakes. Another choice for parts or access information would be Zimmerman Tractor at Versailles Mo.
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Ok dmiller. Thanks. Will get on it as soon as weather breaks
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Lazyts ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 632 |
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11600 would be 1966.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33675 |
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Is a newer group of guys at Kwik parts, Williamsburg MO, seem to find stuff I couldn't, may want to try them as well:
http://kwikpartsllc.com/ |
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Thanks Lazyts. I just thought being a fiat it would be after '74. Guess I better check serial again. It says fiat on battery boxes but I guess they could have been changed or machine repainted with the fiat emblem. Is there any other way to tell?
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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Thanks again dmiller
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Mactractor ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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Serial # alone tells year of manufacture. When Fiat took over, HD11E had been out of production for 4 or 5 years because the series B tractors had taken their place. Many AC made tractors have had Fiat Allis decals put on them. I get rid of those on mine asap
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33675 |
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My HD7G had F/A decals even with AC on the engine and the serial plate so off that nonsense came. Found later it was a late chassis number so might just have had FA designation, still when repaint will only go back with Allis decals right or wrong.
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michale34 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 15 Mar 2011 Location: arkansas Points: 472 |
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back in the 80s we repainted a hd6g when we ordered the decals from the dealer they were fiat the parts man said even tho it was a full blooded ac when the merger took place everything that went through them was rebranded fa including decals because fiat bought the name needlees to say my dad didn't buy them and he had a print shop make some
Edited by michale34 - 18 Feb 2015 at 10:04am |
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razorbackallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Location: arkansas Points: 25 |
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I bet that is what I have. Michale34. It looks to have had a repaint in the past even tho it could use one again.
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donoman ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Location: New Zealand Points: 117 |
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I had the same issue with my HD6E, the brake linings had worn into the brake drum, new linings and a replacement drum and it was fixed, I also mounted a HD11 steering filter on the left rear of the engine which made it very easy to keep the screen clean
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