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orangeman 
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 Topic: Experimental D10 and D12's
Posted: 23 Apr 2012 at 9:04pm |
Guys: I was wondering if anyone has come across any literature that details the experimental tractors that were used as the basis for the D10's and D12's.
I have seen a number of Allis periodicals that mention the prototype and experimental tractors but no information on the experimental tractors that were developed into the D10's and D12's.
Any information would be helpful. Thank-you ....Orangeman
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 23 Apr 2012 at 9:10pm |
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The CA was the experimental D-10/12
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RMD
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 8:09am |
some of the AC books show a CA 30 prototype.
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JoeO(CMO)
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 8:45am |
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I would think the B, C and CA would have been good prototypes, since in reality, that is what appears to have been the case.
Some things like the CA hand clutch, some D styling and others came from across the big pond
Edited by JoeO(CMO) - 24 Apr 2012 at 8:51am
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Lonn
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 9:05am |
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I think the CA 30 was a prototype for the D14. To me the D10 and D12 are off the shelf proven machines pieced together. Like the engine and the tranny. I would bet there wasn't much for prototyping if any. More like a pilot run maybe used as the testing stage. Just guessing.
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orangeman
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 3:30pm |
Guys: All good information above, but here is what is lingering in my mind. I could see the evolution of the D10 and D12's with the 4 speed transmission being adapted from the 4 speed CA.
What is confusing is the larger transmission housing associated with the D10 and D12 even with the early 4 speed transmission set-up. Then as the D10/D12 evolve into their various Series (i.e. I , II and III) a power director shows up to give 8 speeds.
I am thinking that at some point there had to be an experimental tractor or two in the Engineering lab when the 10's and 12's morphed from a 4 gear to 8 gear transmission. I don't see the CA 30, the B, C or CA's for the matter being the basis of an eight speed machine as none of them were equipped with an 8 speed that I know of, but maybe.
I know that the ED 40 had a 8 speed transmission but even that arrangement was not set up like a power director. My thinking about this, and maybe its just me, leads me to believe there was more influence from the D15/D14 to downsize their engineering features and adapt to the basics of the B and C sized tractor. I know Allis Engineering had a fair diet of Experimental Tractors, someone on here once posted an Experimental 190 Industrial.
Sure would like to gather more thoughts and comments on this subject. Thank you Orangeman.
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Dave Everett
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 3:36pm |
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Wondering about that, as English D-270, basically a rebadged CA didnt appear in the UK until November 1955, and the D-272 (with hand clutch) until 1957, this was the one with D style tinwork.....Not 100% sure if a D-270 had a hand clutch ot not, i must check my parts book.
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Gary
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 4:33pm |
Orangeman I think you got the cart before the horse. The D-14 and D-17 came out in 1957 - with Power Director, - 2 years before D-10 and D-12 in 1959. To me the D-14 and CA were the 'pilot' for D-10 and D-12. Wouldn't it have been a great tractor to have a D-12 Series III with Power Director and Live Hydraulic ! Gary
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 6:25pm |
 orangeman wrote:
I am thinking that at some point there had to be an experimental tractor or two in the Engineering lab when the 10's and 12's morphed from a 4 gear to 8 gear transmission. I don't see the CA 30, the B, C or CA's for the matter being the basis of an eight speed machine as none of them were equipped with an 8 speed that I know of, but maybe. |
I never heard of an 8 gear transmission in any D series tractor. I believe the power director, which gave you 8 speeds with 4 gears was a natural evolution from the wet hand clutch on the WD and 45. The 14 and 17 probably gave the engineers some good feedback for 2 years before the 10 and 12 came out.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 24 Apr 2012 at 7:40pm
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wfmurray
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 6:44pm |
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Late model D10 and 12s had a hi and low trans giving them 8 speeds also had live hydl.
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 7:02pm |
wfmurray wrote:
Late model D10 and 12s had a hi and low trans giving them 8 speeds also had live hydl. |
Thats a 2 speed gear box ahead of the 4 speed transmission. Is the torque tube different with the 2 speed box than without it ?
Dusty
Edited by Dusty MI - 24 Apr 2012 at 7:18pm
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 8:46pm |
I have always thought that the Series I D10 and D12 were kind of a step backward from the CA due to their lack of a hand clutch or other method of live PTO. I think I would rather have a "BA" with a hand clutch, 4 speed, traction booster, and snap coupler than an early D10 with only the last three of those features. The late B borrowed some features from the CA on parts that were common to both tractors. By the time 1957 rolled around, the engines were basically the same, as were the torque tubes, fuel tanks, and starter controls. The bones looked the same as the earlier B though, and I'm sure that after 20 years buyers had gotten pretty tired of the "same old B", despite the little improvements along the way. Not too many other tractors can claim a 20 year run with so few changes along the way.
Dave Everett has a good point about the D272, as it is about as close to a "BA" as there could have been when it was equipped with the "petrol" or "TVO" engine. I passed one up once, and have kicked myself ever since.
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 8:51pm |
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Another tidbit from a grouchy nitpicker: I would hesitate to call the late style D10/D12 range transmission a "Power Director" since it should not be shifted on the fly without pushing the clutch pedal. I do agree that a REAL Power Director in these tractors would have made them a dream come true.
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wfmurray
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Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 10:33pm |
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The 10 and12 with live hyhl had a hollow drive shaft with a shaft running from engine to rear of tractor to drive hdyl. Not sure how the pto and belt pulley were driven.
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AllisChalmers37
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Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 6:30am |
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Random question, does anyone have a picture of a CA 30?? That interests me.
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1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500
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DiyDave
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Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 6:43am |
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Swinford's book has pictures of model 101 prototype, which looks more like a CA-30, and of model 108, which looks more like a D-14. What needs to be remembered, is at the time, as now, economics dictate design, too. The HILO tranny added to the 10 and 12, was cheaper than adding a powershift, not to mention lighter. It was actually quite an ingenious feat of engineering, to get the HILO, or reverser tranny into the available space of the torque tube!
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 7:19am |
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10-4 Dave! A true Power Director would have made the D10/D12 cost almost as much as a D14 or D15, and the torque tube would have been much thicker (not good on a cultivating tractor).
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