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Need help with drum brakes |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Topic: Need help with drum brakesPosted: 15 Oct 2026 at 9:30am |
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So backed the hay monster out of the barn the other day, and as it started moving, heard a big BANG out of the back axle. Got it moved where it needed to be, then found rear axle locked up. Jacked it up and what we found was left rear tires were locked up. Once we pulled it all apart, what we found was a broken retractor spring on the brake drum pads. No worries, we just get a spring kit. Not so fast........what spring kit? Truck parts place spent half an hour looking and came to conclusion it would need a Leland K196 kit. This one........ ![]() Except the springs in place, and busted one don't match up to the picture. ![]() So in order to try to narrow this down, how does one go about knowing what axle, what brakes and brake drum kit I actually need? Are there any ID numbers to be found anywhere? Believe hay monster was built on a Dodge D600 truck chassis, circa 1970, but that is a ballpark year only. Also believe rear axle is same one it left factory with, but no way of knowing for certain.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 36747 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 9:37am |
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Will be an Eaton, only Two with that series Axle Shaft and only One with Hydraulic Brakes.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 36747 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 9:38am |
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Two Cylinders per wheel, that series Bendix has LONG been Obsolete.
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 10:06am |
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I may need an interpreter......as this was my first ever look inside a set of drum brakes like this.....but guys at truck parts place also said it was ALL obsolete and not available......except some of them ARE available on ebay. But you need to know what it is you are looking at, to figure out which kit you need. On the Leland kit, there are at least two other "similars" on ebay.......but really none of them look the same as what I'm seeing in this picture. But if you can ID the thing for certain, there are places with NOS to sell. Or .........last ditch would be off to a salvage yard to find a truck being parted out. Problem with that is the springs you could get from there may not be much better than what I have now.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 36747 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 11:11am |
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Need to look thru 2-5ton truck brakes catalogs, will be a hit and miss to locating Similar or Close but none will be same. Some parts stores as the Carquest I work with here still have Older Paper BOUND catalogs where Could be any manufacturer still using a Similar setup.
May still come up empty handed. |
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 36747 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 11:26am |
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Major manufacturers for the Big Four GM DODGE FORD and IH were all similar Bendix Wagner Midland.
Midland was absorbed into Bendix, Wagner continues until closed completely, all are now under Meritor. 90+% of All medium duty Drum brakes are as our Allis machines NOS someone is sitting on or gone. |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 12:25pm |
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Should there be a stamped number or name on the axle, or anywhere on the brake drum? Some way to at least ID it other than an informed guy knowing what it is he is looking at and going from there?
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 5023 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 12:26pm |
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Try all/any of the old time parts stores, and hope one has old paper book sitting around still.
Time flies when having that kind of fun. Must about 20 years since I was in brakes like that on my IH 1700. At that time my local NAPA got what I wanted. But that is several management if not ownership changes ago.
Most of the help there today would be no help at all. |
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5488 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2026 at 2:22pm |
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You're lucky the dufus behind the counter even knew what a drum brake was. All Dodge's of the same era and maybe even up to the point they quit making Medium Duty trucks will be similar for all single speed axles of the same weight rating. Two speed axles will be equally identical. Find the ID number on the axle itself and go to the oldest HD truck parts place you know of. Don't waste you time at car parts. If you can find a Dodge Medium Duty parts book for the approximate year you think the base truck is would be your biggest help.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Posted: 25 Oct 2026 at 2:09pm |
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Quick update. Found a partial K196 kit on ebay........and since it was $10 with free shipping, took a chance. This was old spring that broke and this was new spring in the kit. I may have gotten lucky. ![]() |
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tadams(OH)
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 11785 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2026 at 7:23am |
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Looks Good
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5488 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2026 at 8:09am |
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Since I only have old stuff around, whenever I have good parts (springs, clips keeper and the like) they all get put into a box ad labeled, I may need them someday.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Posted: 23 hours 10 minutes ago at 6:40pm |
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So spring went on and looked to be a good fit. Except when mounted, brake drum was still locked up. Took it all back off and eventually took off both return springs and left brake pad. Aside from the broken spring (which had clearly been broken a long time), the fault seems to have been the self adjuster, which was locked up. Took all that off and got it freed up......all eventually back on........a guy needs as many hands and arms as an octopus......and brake drum would now turn freely. As it stands now, all back together. Test will be tomorrow when I fire it up to return back to the barn. If brakes work, victory will be declared.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5488 |
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Posted: 10 hours 54 minutes ago at 6:56am |
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Self adjusters are as much a PIA as disc brakes. The older manual adjusters on Dodge vehicles were simple and trouble free. Engineers have to justify their existence by designing new and improved things, like many of Fords better ideas, take the Edsel for example.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Lars(wi)
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 8602 |
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Posted: 10 hours 37 minutes ago at 7:13am |
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When we were little kids, I remember my Dad would back the car up real fast, then slam on the brakes. He would do it 2 or 3 times, about once a month or so, claimed “the brakes worked better”.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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ACinSC
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Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Points: 3401 |
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Posted: 10 hours 2 minutes ago at 7:48am |
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Yeah Lars, I have an old C 10 with drum brakes on all 4 wheels and I've done that before. Does seem to help.
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 93477 |
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Posted: 9 hours 45 minutes ago at 8:05am |
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Self adjusters were one step up from the horse and buggy. Old antiquated Bull Chit.. The auto adjusters did work great and adjusted as you backed up.. rolled the shoe in the opposite direction..
That being said, the new DISC brakes are great... If your not getting 50K miles on a set, you doing something wrong... We have a 2019 Ford Flex with ceramic discs.. 68,000 miles and i am going to do the rear brakes this week... Front are ORIGINAL and still plenty of material left... Some guys are getting 100K on these discs..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FloydKS
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: S E Kansas Points: 8747 |
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Posted: 8 hours 27 minutes ago at 9:23am |
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I also have a ford flex... 129 thou... got is as a lemon from Calif. 100 thou ago ... I don't wait till the last minute to "hit the brakes", I have my foot of the gas enough before needing to stop that I don't need much stopping power.
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Holding a grudge is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 10082 |
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Posted: 6 hours 26 minutes ago at 11:24am |
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Now that you mention it, problem with brakes started as I was backing out of barn. As soon as it started moving, there was a loud BANG back there......buy guess is that was when it let go after who knows how long that spring had been broken. BTW, that may have been 2nd break. Spring looked to have been broken and welded once before. So even more fun........this was on left side and lug nuts on that side are left hand thread. Unless you knew that, you were in for a fight getting wheels off. Some are left hand thread, some right hand and some are a mix of both. Some engineer somewhere should have been required to have had a very good reason for all that, or just hang em.
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ACinSC
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Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Points: 3401 |
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Posted: 2 hours 57 minutes ago at 2:53pm |
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Guy at work had a flat tire that I 'helped' with. He told me it was left hand threads after I'd wrung one off. Never seen that before.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5488 |
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Posted: 2 hours 35 minutes ago at 3:15pm |
As for Disc brakes: any single vehicle that I've had to deal with that had them (weather it be a small car, pick up or tractor trailer) was more of a PIA for maintenance and repair than all of the vehicles with drum brakes combined I've owned over the last 50+ years. Once I get my newest acquisition up and running I'll be looking to sell the 1989 Dodge/Cummins which is the only thing I currently own with disc brakes. They work fine when it's driven often, but if it sits a spell it needs calaipers. Never needs rotors or pads, just the pistons seize up from lack of use. None of my drum brake vehicles have a problem sitting for long periods. And the disc brakes I've had experience with on large trucks have been dangerous. One Gasoline tanker I drove had so many problems that the axles were removed and replaced with drum brake axles.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 56142 |
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Posted: 2 hours 13 minutes ago at 3:37pm |
When I was very young, I made a trailer out of an old bread truck solid front axle. When glowing cherry red from the torch, I could just make out the L stamped into the studs, on that side... D'OH!
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 93477 |
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Posted: 1 hour 30 minutes ago at 4:20pm |
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They work fine when it's driven often, but if it sits a spell it needs calaipers. Never needs rotors or pads, just the pistons seize up from lack of use.
Must be a Dodge thing.. I have never had a piston problem on a FORD car or F150... Did have a F250 that piston froze in the bore, ( 40 years ago) but was a factory problem they made to tight..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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