| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
modirt 
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8439
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Hot engine won't start?
Posted: 19 hours 52 minutes ago at 12:04pm |
Have a DewEze Bale Mobale (aka, hay monster) that starts and runs fine. Unless you manage to kill it when hot. Then it won't start. An other wise fully charged battery can barely turn it over. But give it a couple hours to cool down and she turns over and starts right u.
Engine is a 318 Chrysler........with carter 2 barrel carb.......from early 70's. Hay monster built on Dodge D600 truck chassis. Aside from the hydraulics, more or less a stock truck.
Any ideas on why it won't start? Carb vapor locked maybe?
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 86688
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 hours 30 minutes ago at 12:26pm |
|
or a bad coil / condenser... break down when hot... Since it does not DIE when hot, just not RESTART , vapor is a good guess.... Maybe start in ether ?
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
TedN
Bronze Level
Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
Points: 49
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 hours 2 minutes ago at 12:54pm |
|
I would guess you are getting voltage drop between battery and starter, a voltage test at the starter while cranking will tell you. get a set of test leads (I have a Maddox 30' set from Harbor Freight, under $20) so you can check from the starter housing to the positive lead. What I have most commonly found is the ground isn't sufficient when hot. A lot of older vehicles used an open weave ground cable that gets to the point it doesn't conduct well. If you don't have a test meter or just want to try an easy way to test for a bad ground, hook jumper cables from the negative terminal on the battery to the engine block when it doesn't start and see if that helps. You could have other issues, but the bad ground is the one I have seen the most.
Ted
|
|
190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
|
|
modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8439
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 hours 48 minutes ago at 2:08pm |
Now that I think of it, there may be another cause/fix. The fuel line from the fuel pump is now exposed. Somebody had wrapped it with a glass mat insulation and black tape, but that is now gone. I have some insulation tube that I forgot to install. That may help. It also may not help that the radiator and fan are mounted up high and remote. No cooling fan on the motor block itself, so no help for the fuel line.
Ground could also do it, but this one has black battery cable running directly from battery to the chassis frame.
Previous owner told me he was also looking for a coil, so that may help too.
Can't ever recall any farm truck.....once it was running and warmed up......not starting.
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12080
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 hours 31 minutes ago at 2:25pm |
|
Just doesn’t seem like stuff like fuel line insulation, coil, condenser would have anything to do with barely being able to crank it. Ground going bad or something seizing.
|
|
AveryD12
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: Foxworth.MS
Points: 132
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 hours 39 minutes ago at 3:17pm |
|
I had similar issues with a Chrysler product. When the engine got up to operating temp and it had run for an hour or so it wouldn’t restart until it cooled down. Found it to be a bad starter. Don’t know if this could be your problem or not.
Avery
|
|
Joe Goodwill
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Souris Manitoba
Points: 89
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 hours 38 minutes ago at 5:18pm |
|
Mid 70’s Chevy 454 would get tight and hard to turn over if you shut it down quick after running hard and temp was up. Never figured it out but that thing was sure hard on back tires!!😳
|
|
Ed (Ont)
Orange Level
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Location: New Lowell, Ont
Points: 1471
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 hours 6 minutes ago at 6:50pm |
|
Certainly sounds like a bad starter. Slow to turn hot usually indicates starter problem. But check all your cables and connections as well and battery condition. If that starter is 50 years old it has done well!!!! Gear reduction starter on that?? Chrysler used those a lot.
|
|
modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8439
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 hours 58 minutes ago at 6:58pm |
Since last year, new points, plugs, condenser and distributor cap. Was advised to get new air filter. I said was probably fine, but did so anyway. Hard to find industrial canister type. Pulled out old filter and found a birds nest and feathers helping filter. Running on a new filter now.
New gas tank (aluminum fuel cell sold to race car guys), new starter, new battery, new gauges, including tach with hour meter. Those are hard to find.
Did look at battery cables and they are smaller gauge than I remember. Can put on larger ones.
Is it possible something in the engine is expanding enough when hot to be that much of a problem turning it over? Engine has enough power to spin it but battery and starter don't?
Fresh 10-30 oil.......looks clean and slick.
Edited by modirt - 12 hours 57 minutes ago at 6:59pm
|
|
Ed (Ont)
Orange Level
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Location: New Lowell, Ont
Points: 1471
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 hours 28 minutes ago at 7:28pm |
|
You have thrown a lot of parts at it and none of those will cure the problem you said you had which seems to be not turning over well hot. Check your timing to see that it is correct. Too much advance could cause that same problem. Put a starter on it. Or get yours rebuilt - that may be the better option given the poor parts quality these days.
Edited by Ed (Ont) - 10 hours 44 minutes ago at 9:12pm
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 86688
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 hours 12 minutes ago at 7:44pm |
|
with a new starter, its a good bet that you have something getting TIGHTER as the engine heats up.. Maybe you got carbon the pistons ... maybe just drag between the pistons expanding and TIGHT in the bores.... you could try to rotate the engine with a torque wrench on the crank pulley when hot / cold and compare...
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
modirt
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Missouri
Points: 8439
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 hours 3 minutes ago at 8:53pm |
 Ed (Ont) wrote:
You have thrown a lot of parts at it and none of those will cure the problem you said you had which seems to be not turning over well hot. Check your timing to see that it is correct. Too much advance could cause that same problem. Put a starter on it. Or get yours rebuilt - that may be the better option give the poor parts quality these days. |
Agreed.......except most of those parts were intended to bring it back from the dead. A classic case of "it was running when parked". Had sat in the weeds for 3 or 4 years. Little to none of it to address current problem of not starting when hot. For now, that is just an annoyance. I'm careful not to kill it till the day is done.
But we are now using it. Picking up about 400 bales with it tomorrow. Back in the day, I"m told a good crew would not show up for a job less than 1,000 bales. I don't have that kind of crew.
|
|
Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
Points: 7903
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 8 hours 40 minutes ago at 11:16pm |
|
When you say ‘kill it’ are referring to stalling the engine, or turning the ignition off?
|
|
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
|
|
TedN
Bronze Level
Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
Points: 49
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 7 hours 12 minutes ago at 12:44am |
|
If you running it now it doesn't take much to throw a decent set of jumpers in with you and do a quick test if the situation arises, negative terminal to block. Reading the original post again I think this is important, as I believe the issue may be between chassis and engine. With a hydraulic pump tied in you have hydraulic lines that will conduct some electricity before they burst into flames. I have witnessed this exact thing on a S2200 IH, but it was the stainless line off the compressor that lit up. Also had a local trucker lose his truck because it was using the power steering hoses for a ground, when they carried too much current the steel braid got hot enough to ignite the rubber around it. I personally like to run the ground cable directly to the engine, and either ground from there to the chassis or run a seperate ground from the battery. Could be a starter issue, but you say it has been changed. I think if you had something in the engine getting that tight with heat you would notice it, and since friction causes more heat it would get bad enough to kill the engine in short order. I hope this helps.
Ted
|
|
190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
|
|
Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Arkansas
Points: 9613
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 2 hours 24 minutes ago at 5:32am |
|
Next time you try it and it doesn’t want to turn over quickly grab rack battery cable. If one feels hot it’s either bad or not making a good connection.
Could be a bad starter.
I’d trust a junk yard starter muck more than a new one. It took me 4 new starters to get a good one on my work truck.
As mentioned before check timing.
|
|
ekjdm14
Orange Level Access
Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 941
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 1 hour 57 minutes ago at 5:59am |
Thad in AR. wrote:
I’d trust a junk yard starter muck more than a new one. It took me 4 new starters to get a good one on my work truck.
|
Agreed, wouldn't surprise me at all if the new starter is failing when hot.
|
|
Stuck Farmer
|
|
Codger
Orange Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
Points: 2435
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 1 hour 53 minutes ago at 6:03am |
I don't know the machine at all. Are you certain the load is declutching, or releasing from the engine when the engine is not running? You mention hydraulics and if these are not relieving pressure in the driven system immediately you are fighting system pressure with engine start. This possibly decays as time goes by allowing the engine to crank somewhat unloaded.
If certain the load is coming off of the engine when not operating, install either in series a shunt fed, or inductive clamp on ammeter and measure starting current. If you see over 800A inrush on starting current, start moving downstream first removing the starter motor and bench testing. Chrysler gear reduction starters should show about 90A inrush when bench testing with no load as example. within about two seconds taper to 30A or less.
I would agree with electrical connection integrity. I like a minimum of 2AWG from the negative battery post to both the engine block, and frame rail in a gasoline engine application. 2/0AWG in diesel applications. Land that negative lead under a starter mounting fastener is preferred and use dielectric paste to keep corrosion at bay.
|
|
That's All Folks!
|
|
