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Right to repair

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Right to repair
    Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 8:05pm
Colorado is set to become the first state to ensure farmers can fix their own machines with the governor’s expected signing of a "right to repair" law Tuesday, which forces manufacturers to provide their customers with the necessary manuals, tools, parts and software.

Colorado, a state partly blanketed in ranches and farmland, took the lead on the issue following a nationwide outcry from farmers that manufacturers prevent them from fixing their own machines — from behemoth combines to thin tractors — when they break down. Farmers say it forces them to wait precious days for a servicer to arrive, a delay that could mean a hail storm decimates a crop or a farmer misses the ideal planting window.

Lawmakers in at least 10 other states have introduced similar legislation, including in Florida, Maryland, Missouri, New Jersey, Texas and Vermont.

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, is expected to sign the bill Tuesday afternoon, after the legislation advanced through long committee hearings, 



Edited by steve(ill) - 26 Apr 2023 at 8:06pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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JoeM(GA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeM(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 8:49pm
doesn't change a thing, manufacturers will simply price the info at ridiculous prices(as they do now), and you will have to pay crazy renewal fees every year to keep it active, each machine will need different software and cabling and on and on, they will win in the end.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 9:10pm
i can buy a code reader for auto / truck that will read 90% of the problems an ANY vehicle made in the USA in the last 20 years....for $50.    ..... Should be no different for a tractor..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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JohnColo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 9:45pm
I'm hoping you are right, Steve.  As a member of Rocky Mountain Farmers Union, we have spent the last year plus getting this through the legislature.  One of our members from far north eastern Colorado hauled his big CIH four wheel drive to the capital.  It sat for a few weeks last summer with a GPS problem, cost him a couple thousand bucks to get it back in working order.  He also had a problem with his R series Gleaner that the dealer had to come out and plug in to find the culprit.  It's our hope other states will pass similar laws so the manufactures will get with the program.
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thendrix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 9:52pm
I have to agree with both Steve and Joe. It should be easier to fix a tractor than a car/truck but, when it comes to parts or systems, the manufacturer has everybody by the balls. They can make it as complicated as they like and then say "ok, fix this".
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 10:39pm
The success is ruled, first and foremost, by the weather.  Second, and as a result of the first, is economic fortitude... a farmer that cannot stay ahead of the weather, will have no economic strength to continue.

Failing agriculture means people starve.

All these things in mind, it is in the best interest to protect farmers from ANY circumstance which impedes their ability to respond rapidly to the seasons they must act within, and it is in the best interest of society to remove all burdons that strain the economics of agriculture.

I'll not only stand in defense of the 'right to repair' for agriculture, but for ALL industry, because the inability of an individual 'to repair', means the only other alternative (aside from reliance upon the manufacturer-in-control) is the landfill...

Which is clearly contrary to wisdom of resource waste and environmental damage.

And I'll take it one step further:

When a machine is mandated to be fitted with emmission control features that reduce certain outputs, that the effectiveness of the mandated devices should be examined in a real-world-scope of energy input vs. performance output vs. emmissions, and if the result yields anything less than at least a 25% IMPROVEMENT in performance output efficiency, that it shall invalidate the mandate altogether.

For a real-world example:

One machine, under some 'tier' emmission standard, requires 30% more fuel per a given unit of performance output, to meet the particulate emmission-per-fuel-unit-burned standard requirement.

Another machine, under a previous NO 'tier', requires 30% LESS fuel per given unit of performance output, with a slightly higher particulate-emmission-per-fuel-unit-burned.

In this case, the particulate emmission allowance based on 'fuel units burned' is a false economy, because a particulate emmission output of 10% less, while burning a fuel output of 80% MORE fuel, for the SAME work output, is a significant net loss, not an equivalent, much less a net gain.

IMO the 'right to repair' should bind manufacturers to a 'no forced update' circumstance.  If your planter's system worked fine running Version 2.2, and you didn't want to update it, there should be NOTHING that forces you to, and if you choose to repair it, they should not be able to require you to 'update' to any other version.

It should also go without saying that software that has an internally-set 'end of life' routine... should be considered a class-action violation worthy of a full loss judgement against the manufacturer, plus a punitive of the same value. 
EOL routines are added to many devices' firmware now, such that if you try to operate the device past that time without an update, it will simply stop functioning.

The fortunate thing about Right to Repair, is that there are plenty of people willing to become aftermarket retrofitters.  Right to repair wouldn't grant them blanket license to violate patents, but it would be very difficult for a patent-holding manufacturer to stomp an aftermarketer out of existance.

Just remember- all the whizbang technology that goes into that 'stuff', is nothing more than an amalgation of simple systems, that have been brought together into one 'system'.  Once we know what they do, we examine them to see HOW they do it, and then, it's just as simple as making a new main control unit, that runs NOT THEIR SOFTWARE.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DanWi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 8:13am
Dave I agree with what you said. One other thing around here is dealers are struggling to hire mechanics, if they don't have people to fix this stuff they should allow someone to.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 8:22am
i have a code reader for car/ truck and use it to narrow down the problems if and when i have one....then i  fix... problems seem to be minimum... 2010 EDGE, 2013 F150, 2019 FLEX ... many others are now gone.

Last time i was at a Dealer for repair work was in 1989 when my new F250 developed a valve cover oil leak ( on vacation) , and i took it in under warrenty.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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BrianC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 8:31am
Should be law, but in the meantime, which manufactures are
the most open, owner friendly?
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 10:08am
Much we should all demand of our government in Dave's post. So here I go again advocating to bringing politics to such a basic thing as the growing of food. So I can say get political curd OUT of such basics as growing food so all may eat. 

Edited by Ray54 - 27 Apr 2023 at 10:09am
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HudCo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 11:17pm
about 6000$  for good ag software i was going to purchase this spring ,   but i have to get new automotive scanner and  that will be another 5000$  .  i just hope this right to repair goes far enought to make all the ag heavy equipment a universal system like the obd2 automotive  
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