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Nissan CVT Tranny ?? |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 5:07pm |
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Why is it that such a "work-of-art" tranny cost so much $$ when it goes bad ?? I've been putting a few miles on the wife's '16 ROUGE with that tranny and wondered why ALL manufactures haven't adopted this system (it's SEEMLESS in shifting/acceleration) until I had a co-worker telling me that his mother just dumped over $6 grand into her Murano .
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Dorix
Orange Level Access Joined: 21 Apr 2020 Location: fox valley Points: 946 |
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I don't know if it's correct but I was told when they go they do a lot of internal damage.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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I agree, it is a work of art. We have a 2010 maxima in the family and it is awesome to drive.
Try a Dodge version of that tranny and you might not be quite so enamored. Little bit of get what you pay for, little bit of scarcity, little bit of all Nissan parts are expensive, and there you have it. Expensive repair. Edited by Tbone95 - 08 Feb 2022 at 9:11pm |
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DSeries4
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7234 |
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If you did some research online you would find that Nissan CVTs are complete garbage and have been for many years. If you get 100,000 miles out of one, you are doing well. CVTs are basically like a snowmobile transmission - a belt riding on a pulley that changes in size to adjust speed. When the belt in the CVT lets go, it does a lot of damage inside the case. They are cheap to make too. Nissan reliability went into the toilet around 15 years ago when Renault (yes, that French company that made some tractors for AC) bought them. They are in deep financial trouble too - could explain 6g to fix a CVT! I have driven some CVTs before and I find them totally uninspiring. They provide decent fuel economy, but that's about it. Most of them have a whining sound to them and poor performance. I vowed I would never buy one. I bought my Mazda CX5 Signature 4 months ago. It's got a conventional 6 speed slush box automatic that is a joy to drive (and I was never a big fan of automatics before). Cruises silently over 75 mph at 2500 rpm and when you want to pass, drop the hammer and hold on. It will downshift a couple of gears and take you for a ride. I am sure the 250 horsepower turbocharged engine has something to do with that, but the transmission handles that engine very well and shifts very smoothly too. Have not found any reliability issues anywhere either.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Adam Stratton
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: SW MO Points: 1363 |
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Too much metal on metal! It's essentially a metal belt on metal pulleys. On the smaller cars like my 15 versa you can't check the fluid level just have the dealer service it. Had a 100k warranty and 2 different dealers didn't honor it when it acted up for me.
That being said, I've put over 110k miles on it since I've had it and other than having the transmission dealt with and serviced at 3 different shops at least 4 times it's been a good car and gets 40mpg |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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12 years and 135000 on our Maxima and not a lick of tranny trouble. And if you want a ride, floor that accelerator and hold onto your hat.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5651 |
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Mechanical Constant Velocity Transmissions fall in basically two categories... belt variometers, and disc variometers... and the ratio change concept is same for both- two rotating surfaces in contact, where the contact point is on a variable radius. In a belt, there's one driven sheave that goes from small diameter to large (usually by centrifugal force), while the other sheave goes from large diameter to small (by spring force). Tractive force is transmitted not by the FLAT of the belt, but by the SIDES. You'll find belt-variometers in some machine tools (Clausing 5900-series lathe used one that was hydraulically controlled by an annular cylinder, they also used a similar setup on one of their drill presses, and my Milwaukee Die Filer uses a manually-variable variometer, which is like a CVT, but without the automatic variability) but the belt CVT found it's way into moped-scooters, UTVs, etc., too. A disc-type variometer uses a drive disk on a shaft, and a driven roller on another shaft at a 90 degree angle. The driven roller is on a sliding collar keyed to it's shaft, and sliding it from the middle of the drive disk out towards the edge of the drive disk changes the drive ratio. You'll find these on machine tools of several flavors ( i.e. Drill presses, lighter milling machines, and the Snapper Comet rear-engine rider mower) Yes, snowmobiles were the first place belt-type CVTs became largely popular in the US... and they worked well there, because the vehicles they were driving, were LIGHT. When CVT transmissions were introduced in automobiles, it was very clear that they would work on very light cars, but as weight increased, their reliability and livespan reduced dramatically. Good idea? Well, it COULD be... but a modern electronically-controlled automatic transmission with locking torque converter, 6 speeds, and double-overdrive ratios will take a whole lot more of a beating, handling substantially higher loads, and require basically NO maintenance in comparison to the CVT, will beat it in basically every category. Some will argue that the CVT will beat the automatic in fuel economy, my experience shows no substantial gain in that respect... they'd claim the CVT to be physically lighter, and in some cases, that would be true, but with a considerable loss in long-term power handling capacity. In ANY respect, the torque converter and gearing of a modern automatic will stomp the CVT's tractive force capacity hands-down... as a torque converter, in full stall, has the ability to multiply torque from a standstill by a factor of 4 to 5-times' the input, and NOT SPIN the output, practically indefinately, with NO damage. A CVT will smoke and fail... And that is the reason why you won't see much towing capacity on a CVT... and for those that do, you'll be facing lots of repair bills. Tbone apparently hasn't suffered what thousands of other have... my cousin's Maxima made it to about 36k before it started it's death-spiral, several tows and repairs, and by 50k, it was sitting dead in their driveway awaiting settlement for four years before the roll-back truck toted it to the junkyard. If it'd been just two model-years older, we would've yanked the engine and CVT, and dropped in an earlier model conventional and at least had a driveable car, but no chance... the platform had changed to an irreversable setup. on a scooter, they're da bomb...
Edited by DaveKamp - 08 Feb 2022 at 10:33pm |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Tbone apparently hasn’t suffered….well that’s exactly what I said so guess not.
Guess I got lucky. That’s pretty unusual for me and vehicles. Ask all my coworkers! Buying that Nissan was one of few purchases that ended a string of disastrous repairs on GM products that about put me in the poor house! |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4457 |
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Work of art???? nothing more than an upsized snowmobile transmission that is 1960s vintage
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21679 |
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6K isn't that bad( tongue in cheek).. it'll cost you 4K+ for a TH350 rebuild up here... as pointed out CVTs are great in LIGHTWEIGHT vehicles.... MTD 'Automatic' riders are one example. Sleds are the most well known uses for them though. still like the way RR engines are made. diesel engine driving a genny to power motors on the wheels. 'Dialed' in they'd be GREAT.... happy wife didn't get trailer hitch on her Quashqui (baby rogue...)
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Gee, Paul doesn’t like something. Simply shocking!
Jay, all that weight is put to good use on a locomotive, not so great on a passenger vehicle. |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78386 |
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Buying that Nissan was one of few purchases that ended a string of disastrous repairs on GM products that about put me in the poor house!
So a Datsun is a STEP UP from a CHUBY ? Tbone, I LOVE IT !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Most definitely! |
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Kansas99
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4810 |
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Well you guys can complain all you want about cvt trannies but I’ve had excellent results. 240a has 8000 hrs and zero trans problems and that’s pulling a pretty good load maybe not up with a Nissan but pretty good although I must admit I never went snowmobiling with it so that might have ended in catastrophic failure.
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"LET"S GO BRANDON!!"
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Yeah, but is it light? |
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Kansas99
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4810 |
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Well when I load the drill behind it it seems a little light.
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"LET"S GO BRANDON!!"
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21679 |
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re: Jay, all that weight is put to good use on a locomotive, not so great on a passenger vehicle. weight ?? small diesel engine spinning a genny, feeds controller, that feeds 1 to 4 motors engine/genny would weigh a lot LESS than the 1800#, 12K$ battery in the Lightning. gives you CVT performance and NONE of the belt issues....
Edited by jaybmiller - 09 Feb 2022 at 10:24am |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Weight, yeah, did I spell it wrong? Didn’t know you were comparing to the Lightning with all the batteries. Your plan has been looked at and still being worked on and considered by the automakers I know this for a fact as we’re closely involved with auto transmissions. It just isn’t the winning way, at least not yet. Diesels of a few years ago….I’d take in a heartbeat over the new stuff. |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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One thing I’d be worried about, and I think you’d be too given where you live, is all that electric stuff going to each wheel including the motors operating reliably in the conditions they must operate and survive in long term.
The way they’re currently leaning it seems is a two speed tranny and planetary in the wheels. Who knows if that’ll actually be what’s dominant or not. Just give me a gas ICE and a good gear tranny and I’ll be the happiest. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21679 |
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Reliability shouldn't be a problem. Very few wires, 3 or 4 for power, 2-3 for dumb sensors. It ain't rocket science to make water proof, salt proof connectors. Most every jetplane has simaler tech and they don't fall out of the sky, You should see some of the Ebike motors. Was thinking of making a 4WD 'bike' with them. Did most of the code cutting preCovid, then lost interest after selling next door. Now my immediate quest is to get the starter rebuilt from the forklift..
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Whatever you say Jay. It’s not impossible. Every salt proof/ water proof, dust proof layer you add adds cost. Ever loose function of an ABS sensor? I have. Ever loose a CV joint because the boot tore and destroyed it? I have. You can tell me what’s possible, as if I didn’t already know. I’m just figuring on reality. Don’t think most people will go through the rigors of maintenance and inspection of their cars the same way airplanes do. We shall see. Right now they aren’t much going that direction and that’s simply a fact.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21679 |
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'they' are just trying to get as many coins out of your pockets. Same as 'computers' and 'smart phones',we don't NEED most of the new features, just get scammed into them... BTW I hate ABS, if you KNOW how to drive, no NEED for it...same as NO need for active LASER tech in the car cabin. Interesting from the tech side but really do we NEED it ? I get daily updates on the tech ,at the chip level.. still wondering where all the 42V cars got to ?
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Yeah, I learned to drive pre ABS era as well. Your opinion doesn’t surprise me at all. But I’ve learned to cope. Edited by Tbone95 - 09 Feb 2022 at 4:58pm |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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All I know is that momma's buggy has 135 K on it, It's apparently a "sealed" unit with no preventive maintenance provisions , and is a DREAM to run down the city/country/highways !! The American "BIG 3" should have jumped onto this technology and "improved on it" if it's so bad . I can only imagine what a Ford 10 speed auto costs to get rebuilt !!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11434 |
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Better check your manual, there is a fluid change interval. It requires a machine to do it correctly and completely so best done by a dealer IMO. The big 3 all toyed with it for a while. At least ford and Dodge. They didn’t stick with it and that’s when the increasing number of speeds in transmissions began taking off. I agree on the driving, the maxima is incredibly smooth and powerful. |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4457 |
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The main reason for all the technology in new cars (aside from emptying you pockets to own one) is so the nut behind the wheel doesn't really need to know what he's doing. Did anyone see the Tesla that struck two State Police Officers in North Carolina, while the Dr. was in the back seat watching a movie?
I'll keep my pre computer vehicles , thank you.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7978 |
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The key to keeping any auto transmissions alive now a days is changing the oil when the manufacture says so !
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 9755 |
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You got to read the owners manual to do that |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78386 |
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YEP.... most people these days just---- PUSH BUTTON , MOVE shift lever, PUSH THROTTLE.. ? Dont have a clue about maintenance.. Some never get it.
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 Feb 2022 at 2:15pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Thanks for the "heads up" on the fluid change interval, I will look into getting the fluid changed . The wife just informed that her Nissan Buggy has 110K on it as of tonight
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