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V-twin Honda mower won’t run when warm. |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:00pm |
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This is on a cub cadet zero turn.
It starts right up and mows perfect for a few minutes then dies and won’t restart. After 20 minutes it starts right back up. What I’ve done so far. Changed both coils and spark plugs. Cleaned gas tank, lines and carburetor. I’ve ran it with the gas cap loose. Tested the fuel pump. Added new non ethanol when I cleaned the carb. I’ve cleaned every electrical connection on it. I’m wondering if maybe a valve starts sticking when it gets warm? I can’t tell if it’s running out of gas but I truly believe it’s electrical. When it tries to start when warm it sounds like the timing is off and has a bit of spark knock and an occasional backfire. When cool it starts and runs perfect. I’ve also wondered about the fuel solenoid.? |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5651 |
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You COULD have a failing fuel solenoid. You could ALSO have a fuel line with interior lining breaking down, and being drawn shut... probably between fuel pump and tank or selector valve. Engine and driveline heat warms it up, softens it, and it draws in and constricts the fuel flow enough to cause it to run lean, and eventually stall.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Dave H
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central IL Points: 3485 |
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I don't think you mentioned changing the fuel filter, but you probably did? My V Twin Kaw does that popping and pfarting right before it lights up, has for years. Could try taking a fuel hose, stick it in some gas an hook the other end straight to the fuel pump and try it when it won't start. If you use clear tubing you could see how/if that pump is sucking. When she is dead in the water you could check to see if the fuel solenoid is getting juice. What a puzzle.
Edited by Dave H - 15 May 2022 at 7:07am |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21689 |
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To eliminate the fuel solenoid, you could carefully pull off the 'rubber' tip,then reinstall the solenoid. This allows gas to flow '24/7'. If the engine still dies then NOT the solenoid, so put the rubber tip back on. Have seen 3-4 Kohlers do this..'bad' gas gums up the solenoid rubber.... Not low on oil ??
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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This has no rubber tip on the solenoid rod. Just a metal taper. It has a removable plunger. I could try that.
I can not find a low oil switch on this motor. |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78430 |
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pull a spark plug and see if it is sparking when hot.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Got two hours out of it this morning before it quit. I did test spark with a screw driver. It seems to be firing but possibly intermittent? Broad daylight hard to see the spark. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29884 |
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Adjust the valves. Gets hot and clearances are closing up where valves are likely staying partially Open.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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I believe this is exactly what’s happening. Will adjust them tonight. |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78430 |
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i have worked on several Briggs, and smaller Chinees engines that did not run when hot.. Valves too tight is a common problem.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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I pulled the valve covers last night. The valves were in spec per the manual.
I reckon I’m on to the next phase of this nightmare. Gonna get some marvel mystery oil and run in the gas and see if a little top end lube may help. She was able to mow 2 hrs without it dying last weekend but it was much cooler that day. Pulled the plugs. They look good but possibly a little lean. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21689 |
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OK, dumb questions but...... is there GREAT airflow from 'blower' past cylinders ? NO remnants of 'mouse house' constructions ? is oil level 'at the mark' ?
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78430 |
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jay may be on to something.. Maybe the carb gets hot and gasoline VAPOR LOCKS ? See if adequate air flow around the carb ... no restrictions... no extra covers.. ? .......... assuming you DO have a spark ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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I had the main cover off to change coils and clean carb.
I also rerouted the gas line Incase of vapor lock which the symptoms remind me of. It has some lower covers around the block and bottom of cylinders/heads. I’m gonna pull those off tonight and check. I blew air in there but never removed them. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21689 |
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I've seen the remains of a real nice rider burned up cause of a 'mouse CONDO' in the blower /cooling ductwork. It was soooo packed FULL of 'kindling'.... every spring I remove the covers and blow the KRAP out of neighbour's rider....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Pulled every cover off tonight. All was clean as new.
Ready for the next try. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21689 |
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dang... I ain't got too many more straws to pull outta my magic hat.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Kansas99
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4810 |
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This wouldn’t happen to be a 20 hp vertical?
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"LET"S GO BRANDON!!"
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Yes it is |
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fjdrill
Silver Level Access Joined: 13 May 2012 Location: Alabama Points: 268 |
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coil?
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78430 |
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Thad, i think you do need to VERIFY a good spark next time it is HOT and STOPS... You have to determine if this is a SPARK or GAS problem to move forward.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3337 |
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make sure the gas cap vents
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Steve I believe it has spark. It may be intermittent but it has spark. I pull a plug each time and never are they wet/gas soaked although o believe heat might be the cause. I’m gonna buy two of those little spark checkers to test it with. Using a screwdriver shows spark to some degree. Seems to try to run on right cylinder and the left seems to not hit at all when this happens. It tries to start with left plug wire pulled but doesn’t even try with the right wire pulled. Wondering of it has a weak fuel pump or weak vacuum when warm? |
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Kansas99
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4810 |
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Thad, I wish I could help but I had that exact motor on a landpride razor that did the exact same thing, although it would only do it when it was hot outside, at least 95 or more, if there was no wind then it would do it at lower temp. I had dual tanks and could switch back and forth and help but not solve, I never figured out what the cause was, but I was almost certain it was a vapor lock issue. I guess I really gave up because usually it was hot enough out that you didn't want to be on a mower anyways, so it was a excuse. Mine was new enough that it had the black outer plastic cover, but my neighbor had same mower older red metal cover 20hp and it wouldn't do it. I was almost at the point of putting a fuel can in the freezer and when it did it pour that fuel in or try rapping the black fuel tanks in white. I changed fuel line routing checked everything, got nothing. I don't know if that's your problem but I felt fuel was mine, just never got it figured out. Have you had this mower a while? I can't remember now but I think mine started first year or two I had it.
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"LET"S GO BRANDON!!"
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21689 |
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ne of those ...be nice to be there to SEE it problems.. hmm 'dies'.. is it a slow, fumbly kinda death or quick and stopped ? does the carb have a drain to check if gas is in the bowl when it fails ? Be REAL careful, hot engine, gasoline...... does carb have an 'anit-dieselling' shuttoff solenoid ? Kohlers were nasty to fail('cure' was to remove the rubber tip...) usually you can hear it 'click' on/off with the key being 'on/off'. hard to believe it's a mag issue, they 'usually' fail hard....eventually. going to be interesting to see what CURES this PITA !!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Red main engine color the rest are black. I do feel that re-routing the fuel line helped. |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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Has brand new coils. Dies a slow fumbly kind of death. Spit spider n die. |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78430 |
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The carburetor may be getting hot and causing the VAPOR LOCK... the gas line can contribute to it.... But we have not discussed the gas tank location ? Is there radiant heat on the bottom of the gas tank ? Could it use an insulation blanket or baffle from the motor ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9311 |
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The gas tank is under a black cover on the left side to the left of the engine. It sits right over the left rear tire. Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the motor then around the right side of the motor to the fuel pump then to the carb. |
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