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Wiring a GM alternator

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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 6:19am
The backhoe I bought has a GM alternator.
It isn’t charging.
I plan to rewire everything.
It still has the voltage reg and wiring from it and the new spliced wiring for the alternator.
Mice have had their way as well.
Steve I’ll. Helped me wire the last one with a good diagram.
I used a marker light from the parts store in the system.
I’m seeing neat little round LED indicator lights for sale.
Will one of these work.
Would it hold up in the elements?
I’m trying to keep this neat.
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im4racin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im4racin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 6:28am
A led wont work for the indicator light in that circuit. You could use a single wire alt from Napa. 213-4011sw. They only need the heavy charge wire.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 6:45am
Originally posted by im4racin im4racin wrote:

A led wont work for the indicator light in that circuit. You could use a single wire alt from Napa. 213-4011sw. They only need the heavy charge wire.

Thank you. I wondered if LED would work or not?
If it turns out this alternator doesn’t work I may do that.
I think I’ll pull it and have it tester first thing.

Edited by Thad in AR. - 18 Feb 2022 at 6:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 6:56am
Probably a 10DN series alternator. As suggested replace with a 10SI, (Systems Integrated)  internally regulated type and do away with the external regulator circuitry. Later models are one wire only and utilize self excitation to vary field current. Check for "cut in" rpm as I've seen many not start charging till the engine is revved far too high for my liking. They are fine once the exciter circuit is enabled. 

If you have an ammeter you will be set and if not, one can be incorporated easily enough.


Edited by Codger - 18 Feb 2022 at 7:00am
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

Probably a 10DN series alternator. As suggested replace with a 10SI, (Systems Integrated)  internally regulated type and do away with the external regulator circuitry. Later models are one wire only and utilize self excitation to vary field current. Check for "cut in" rpm as I've seen many not start charging till the engine is revved far too high for my liking. They are fine once the exciter circuit is enabled. 

If you have an ammeter you will be set and if not, one can be incorporated easily enough.



It has a 10si now. It is not charging. The wiring is a mess as it still has the old original external regulator and wiring.
I’m gonna remove it all and start from scratch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:34am
Can use a power wire from Alt to Starter Hot post with either a 60a Fuse Link or a high rate slow blow fuse in the line.  Check to make certain has power to back of Alternator at the single stud.  

If is on a Allis make certain is a Proper to the Alternator Ground(NOT Pos Ground unless marked such).  Tractor can be swapped to N Ground easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:50am
Thad , the 40 year old alternators had an external regulator... Before 1980, GM switched to the 10SI with INTERNAL regulator. That was the industry standard for years.. About 2000 they came up with the CS130 ( smaller) alternators, then later came up with the "MINI" which is very popular now.. Almost everything built after 1990 has an internal regulator.......... You can get a new "MINI" with 3 wire or single wire feed.... Just might need to modify the MOUNT......... (Personally, i have been using the CS130 alternators for 15 years on ALL tractors).







Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Feb 2022 at 8:53am
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:50am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Can use a power wire from Alt to Starter Hot post with either a 60a Fuse Link or a high rate slow blow fuse in the line.  Check to make certain has power to back of Alternator at the single stud.  

If is on a Allis make certain is a Proper to the Alternator Ground(NOT Pos Ground unless marked such).  Tractor can be swapped to N Ground easily.

Yes it’s already swapped to negative ground. I haven’t tested any wires yet. I’ll get to it this weekend.
Thank you

Edited by Thad in AR. - 18 Feb 2022 at 10:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CentralMNCA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:53am
I have a CA Allis that I am installing a CS130 alternator , I do not want the one wire system, so if LED light will not work, so just purchase any filiment type light, will that work for indicator light ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:54am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Thad , the 40 year old alternators had an external regulator... Before 1980, GM switched to the 10SI with INTERNAL regulator. That was the industry standard for years.. About 2000 they came up with the CS130 ( smaller) alternators, then later came up with the "MINI" which is very popular now.. Almost everything built after 1990 has an internal regulator.......... You can get a new "MINI" with 3 wire or single wire feed.... Just might need to modify the MOUNT.







Yes. This one started out as an externally regulated generator. It now has a 10sI internal regulated.
The external regulator and wiring is still there with bare wires,splices and who knows what?
I just need to remove it all and start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:59am
Here is the "ONE WIRE" the guys are talking about... Just GUT everything and one 1 wire to the POSITIVE battery wire.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:02am
Mel, i use the 3 wire CS130  alternators on my tractors. The "light bulb" goes in the SIGNAL WIRE to drop voltage slightly and make the alternator start to charge. Instead of a BULB, i use a 100 ohm resistor. These are about 1/2 inch square and 3 inches long with a wire out each end.... I bought several at Radio Shack 15 years ago about $1. each.....When i used the 10SI alternators, i used a 10 OHM resistor.


this is the diagram i use... I have a double poles switch to turn the alternator ON and UNGROUND the MAG at the same time... If you have a COIL, you want to turn the ignition OFF and the alternator OFF at the same time.. same switch..




Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Feb 2022 at 9:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CentralMNCA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:26am
Steve-   thanx for the great info, wonderful to have a person like yourself, I will be using this for  wiring project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:27am
Years ago i got a drawing from the DELCO BOOK on test procedures for the CS130 alternator............. this is how i came up with the "100 ohm" resistor value.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:33am
100 OHM, 10 WATT resistor ....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:36am
this !!!
Yes it’s already swapped to positive ground

TO---> positive ground ?????

NO,NO,No !!!

BIG problem there..
99.44% of ALL alternators are NEGATIVE ground

Be 100% sure the -ve of battery is grounded.
Please report back once you've confirmed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 10:08am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

this !!!
Yes it’s already swapped to positive ground

TO---> positive ground ?????

NO,NO,No !!!

BIG problem there..
99.44% of ALL alternators are NEGATIVE ground

Be 100% sure the -ve of battery is grounded.
Please report back once you've confirmed

Was in a hurry Jay.
I fixed it.
Yes it’s negative ground
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 10:14am
I have all the 10SI alternators I use on equipment just wired with jumper from battery wire to the one terminal . Was wondering WHY a resistor is needed in that jumper wire ? 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

I have all the 10SI alternators I use on equipment just wired with jumper from battery wire to the one terminal . Was wondering WHY a resistor is needed in that jumper wire ? 

I thought it would drain the battery while sitting???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

I have all the 10SI alternators I use on equipment just wired with jumper from battery wire to the one terminal . Was wondering WHY a resistor is needed in that jumper wire ? 

I thought it would drain the battery while sitting???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 11:55am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Here is the "ONE WIRE" the guys are talking about... Just GUT everything and one 1 wire to the POSITIVE battery wire.





Thinking of tossing one of these on 185 and be done.  Simple like trucks ran for years just less amp and money.


Edited by Kansas99 - 18 Feb 2022 at 11:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:01pm
re: Yes it’s negative ground

whew !! Knowing that some old tractors were +ve ground, this had me concerned as it could explain the 'dead' alternator....

the resistor (or idiot light, or switch) is used to 'sense' power needed. I like the idiot light as  it'll come on, with engine off...turn off while charging AND if the fanbelt breaks it lights up !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:31pm
I have all the 10SI alternators I use on equipment just wired with jumper from battery wire to the one terminal . Was wondering WHY a resistor is needed in that jumper wire ?

Coke... there are two SMALL terminals on the 10SI...  #1 and #2.. AS you said, the #2 has a short jumper wire on it that is just connected to the BATT (BIG) terminal on the back of the alternator.... You "NORMALLY" need a signal wire to the #1 terminal to EXCITE the alternator and get it to charge... Your SIGNAL should be slightly less than the 12 volt battery wire, so a 10 OHM, 10 watt resistor is put in the line... also need a SWITCH to turn that wire OFF when not running.... I dont know how you got the alternator to TURN ON without the signal..... There are some "ONE WIRE" 10SI alternators available that dont need the signal.




Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Feb 2022 at 1:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:40pm
Not trying to hi-jack this thread , but my D 15 alt is a Delco Remy 1103103 63 A 9J18 12V NEG . Don't see 10DN or 10SI anywhere , unless it's on the bottom ? Just curious , Thanks !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:59pm
AC... that is a 10SI alternator that puts out 63 amps ... and probably built 30 years ago... There were several "updates" after that to increase the amp output... Same basic alternator with INTERNAL REG.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:59pm
If you bore the old generator pulley to fit alt. it takes less rpm to get charging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 1:31pm
the 10Si internal diodes keep the flow from grounding out , the jumper wire without resistor will sense voltage from bat to that terminal and internals of regulator will turn on alternator . 
 I have been running a 10SI on my HD5G for 20 years or longer , and the alternator on my 715B is wired the same except for tachometer it has a separate tab to power the tach .
 On my White Super Mustang dump truck also ditched the 35A Leis Nevil alternator with + ground and changed to 10SI using the same setup of single wire with no resistor . 
 On the HD5 - 2-71 the RPM is low so need to throttle up to get it to cycle into charge mode after starting but it will cut back and regulate fine after that initial switching on at higher RPM  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 1:35pm
The 10SI shaft diameter is the same as the generator pulley shaft diameter so it swaps right on . pulley OD is where it becomes a little more of a problem depending on belt width . I found a pulley from GM truck alternator that was cast then machined it down to accept the B width belt for HD5 and also machined one for the White engine belt as that was wider .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 1:52pm
I've done that with the 10SI series for well over 20 years myself. Easy way to tell if the fields are energized or not is to simply see if a bolt or something steel will stick to the back of the alternator case near the rear bearing. If not, it's not going to discharge anything. If the alternator is charging, the bolt will firmly anchor itself to the case.

Jumpering from the the B+ terminal on the back to the rt. terminal, (looking from rear) will turn the alternator on but the engine rpm and internal voltage usually need raised to forward bias the internal diodes to conduction. The left terminal is only there to assure conduction starts at low engine idle speed, (IMO).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 2:06pm
Thanks ! I assume this is a 3 wire alt but it only has 2 wires hooked up . Bigger wire goes to BAT (battery) and other wire is plugged into #1 . It does keep the battery charged but the amp needle ticks like a clock . I tried hooking another ground to the alt but got no results . Thanks again !

Edited by ACinSC - 18 Feb 2022 at 2:22pm
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