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Briggs & Stratton Bankruptcy |
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steelwheelAcjim ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Location: Blissfield,Mi Points: 1257 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 10:56am |
I posted this here instead of the garden tractor forum because a lot of us have used Briggs engines somewhere on our farms, homes and ranches.
A friend emailed this link to me. |
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Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires!
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CAL(KS) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3789 |
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"The company warned that its losses, the pandemic and pending debt payments raised substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern. Yet in June, while it skipped a $6.7 million interest payment, the company awarded its executives and other key employees more than $5 million in cash retention awards."
BULLSH$T
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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Gary Burnett ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3008 |
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Been a good number of years since B&S made a motor i'd want to buy.
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
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I heard this was coming last Friday..... I hope Simplicity survives
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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Kansas99 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 2015 Location: W Kansas Points: 4867 |
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That's not good, I just bought a 735 grasshopper lawn mower last fall and went with the briggs over the kohler as there was no comparison on power. Hope they emerge or sell to somebody that keeps on building the engines and parts.
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24336 |
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Hmm, maybe they got too briggs for their britches ??? Always find it 'interesting' that the fat cats up top ALWAYS pay themselves HUGE 'bonuses' for a job well done, like driving the company down the toilet... |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
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I think some company is looking to buy at a fraction of their worth due ti the giant debt load they took on. They started slipping big in 2009 and never really recovered, so I've read.
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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garden_guy ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Location: Illinois Points: 1146 |
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I've been pretty disappointed with their newer small motors post the "Eager-1" Craftsman era (grey mowers). The red ones pretty much burned oil and smoked since new (not a lot of nice things to say about Craftsman in that era either). I've got some older equipment with briggs that even though they burn a bit of oil, they are work horses like a 1980s Monkey Wards garden tiller and an old Craftsman snow blower. Rather spend money trying to keep them going than replace them with what they make now. Last push mower, I paid extra to get a Honda motor instead of a Briggs.
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Grant ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jun 2020 Location: Cobb, Ca. Points: 24 |
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Unfortunately this is the America we live in, and have for 30+ years. Corporate leaders drive companies under but take huge bonuses and golden parachutes. Most job losses to China, have not been China steeling our jobs, but corporate leaders sending them to China, so the stock holders can make more money. Briggs and Stratten, and many other companies have suffered from greedy corporate leaders. Buy American if you can, but it is hard to do in this day and age. Sorry for the rant. Grant.
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Ky.Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Kentucky Points: 1020 |
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Kind of ironic that this info is on an AC forum. Is it possible that the same thing happened when AC went out? It would not surprise me. Most of us would have done the same thing.
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FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
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Not to hijack, but what happened to Tecumseh ?? Back in the '80's, a B/S was MUCH preferred
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5126 |
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The old saying that they don’t make them like they used to applies to almost everything we buy these days. My AC tiller, B-208, and other garden equipment have B&S engines from the 70’s that still run very well. Repaired a fairly new zero turn mower with a B&S 28 hp for a friend that would not start, turn over actually. One would have thought possible battery or starter. As it turned out after some research, I had to adjust the compression relieve valves as they have to be adjusted every 100 hours. Fired up and ran well after that. We live in a throw away world I guess, not too many folks know how to work on their on stuff.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Fred in Pa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9210 |
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Honda !!!!!
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33121 |
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What killed B&S is the Chinese knockoff engines, perform as well or in some conditions better, insides are crude but stick with the program where the B&S are over technified/cheapened internally to the hilt and fail often. Northstar engines are Chinese knockoffs, last a long time and cheap to buy, hard to get past that point when nearly 1/3 cheaper.
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wbecker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: STL Points: 837 |
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Crap, I bought a new Ferris mower, it has a Briggs engine and in fact the entire unit is Briggs. I think they got into too many products instead of concentrating on what they had always done, engines.
BB
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Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5126 |
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You bought a very good zero turn, should last you a long time. My concern is for my older AC garden stuff as parts are getting harder to find. A lot of parts not manufactured anymore. Who would have thought something like lift cables for a mower deck or sickle mower for my 720’s are no longer made? Ok, they are 45 years old but still going strong. Maybe that’s why they don’t want to make them so to force customers to buy something new. Hope we are not hitting the panic button too soon. Would be sad to see B&S go away like AC did.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5958 |
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I replied re. this in The reason why AC went out, occurred for similar reasons... Business, ie. management, plans, and processes were inappropriate with respect to change. Let's say you're a Brontosaurus. It's 105F, and thick-sticky-humid. You stand in a swamp, eating the tops of trees, lay basketball-sized eggs in a nest the size of a 24x24 garage, and nothing comes near it, on account of 8 feet of water and lots of your long-necked friends. The eggs hatch 90 days later, and your offspring start eating plants. Within 100 days, they're capable of surviving the winter, when temperatures drop down to about 60F for 4 months. A volcano erupts 12,000 miles away, sending billions of tons of ash into the upper atmosphere, and the sky grows dark. 15 days later, it's 50F. What's left of your nest will not hatch, as it's too cold. In another 50 days, the swamp is starting to freeze, and the leaves have all wilted, so there is no more food. You don't know which way, or how far it is, to another swamp, but if you DID start walking, and found one, you'd find that it too was wilted and gone, with other brontosaurus nests raided and gone. You could also attempt to eat other species, perhaps even other brontosaurus, but you'd find that process to be incompatible with your physical structure- You're huge, heavy, and slow... so you have no ability to attack and kill, and also to bite, swallow, and digest. You could eat rocks, which although full of minerals, do not posess the kind of energy necessary to fuel a 48,000lb body with an 80-foot tail... and with no substantial source of fuel, it becomes impossible to maintain enough body heat to defend against smaller creatures less affected by the falling environmental temperature (like... those that developed FUR... and have 4-chamber hearts, smaller bodies, etc). The reality here is that business economics is no different than basic survival: When the environment changes, you have ONLY THREE CHOICES: Move, Adapt, or DIE. Moving, and adapting take resources... and unfortunately, the time of indecision, is a timeframe in which resources are continuing to be used, and in most cases, those resources are being used FASTER than previously assumed, because the changing environment is applying more strain. This means that... the DECISION TIMEFRAME between MOVE and ADAPT... can become PIVOTAL in the success of avoiding DIE. Like driving a car... the choice of stop or dodge may both be valid, but the TIME required to choose wether to STOP or DODGE, may be so short that by the time the decision is made, NEITHER will work... and this is the reason why keeping alert (fast reaction time) and leaving lots of stopping distance (decision time) is so desirable on motorway safety. Thus... HE who Hesitates... is LOST. Allis-Chalmers, like many other companies, was consumed by it's own complex amalgation... in common English: Too many irons in-the-fire, and a clear case where the upper end of management was too focused on one side of the economic model (money going in one direction) than the other (goods and services in the other). It placed itself into a position of overdependency on the current environment, and had insufficient resources in reserve, to provide for reaction time, choosing time, and action time, to survive. The giveaway, is 'Mergers and Acquisitions'. When ANY company is involved in a merger or acquisition, it is because of ONE REASON ONLY: Weakness. A company that is strong, never merges, and is never acquired. A business that is 'owned' by something other than itself, is inherently weakened, because it's focus is no longer in that of it's primary economic model (customer transactions => cash flow), and instead, on maintaining the desire of the 'ownership' (yielding dividends). The reason for this, is that Yielding dividends is a short-term goal... it occurs on a regular (quarterly, biannually, annually, etc) basis. As a result, it is frequent that middle and upper management of a company become short-sighted, and thus, are attracted to taking actions that look 'good' on the next Q report. While it would be great to post a 10 million profit for 2Q, there's more than one way to accomplish that- first, is to generate a 20 million in product sales (at 50% profit), the other is to sell off your foundry for 8 million, fire 12 million in experienced labor, and outsource all that production as Just-In-Time contracting for 3Q. The third option, is to post no change in sales, and post no dividends, but remain on a steady keel for another several years. What makes more sense? A LONG TERM vision doesn't focus on short-term yield... it keeps the basic economic model in place (good/services one way, money in the other), and stays focused on it, while looking to utilize the company's resources (particularly, it's scrap, surplus, and waste) into marketable product and resource.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Bill_MN ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1466 |
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Too bad....I went to South Dakota State for school and learned that the first B&S engine was invented there by an engineering student, Stephen Briggs. It was actually a six cylinder two stroke. I believe the Ag Museum on campus up there has one of his early engines on display.
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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EPALLIS ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1146 |
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"Briggs closed its plant in Port Washington in 2008". Wasn't that the old original A-C location for the lawn and garden division?
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AC since 12 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: Trenton Ohio Points: 34 |
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Thanks for letting me know about Briggs & Stratton. We lost Evinrude last month, now B&S. All the name brands that we grew up with are disappearing. Whats next Smith and Wesson?
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Play Farmer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: NNY Points: 732 |
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Maybe not Smith & Wesson but Remington Arms just filed bankruptcy too. Bad deal for everyone.
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DonDittmar ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2505 |
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Judging by the product they have been making the past few years, this doesnt surprise me. Had a Craftsjunk pressure washer with Briggs and Scrapiron on it. Backfired everytime you shut it off to the point it blew a head gasket. Wheels were falling of it because they were plastic and the hose and nozzle was junk when it was new so I scrapped the whole thing. Bought a new Water Cannon from the local JD dealer. Has a 5 HP Honda on it. 10 times the machine
B&S and Kohler cant hold a candle to Honda and Kawasaki
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
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Play Farmer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: NNY Points: 732 |
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^^^ I would agree on the Kawi part, Honda not-so-much. Like Briggs, they make some real junk to these days. It all depends on how it's spec'ed.
My brother owns a couple of go-kart rental tracks. The karts come with Honda motors. When they fail, which doesn't normally take long, he replaces them with the Predator motors from Harbor Freight. $400 for a new Honda, $99.00 for a new Predator. Here's the crazy part; when he gets a new Predator the first thing he does is harvest the crankshaft from the Honda and bolts it into the Predator. It is a direct drop-in fit. It makes hooking up the transmission easier (no adapter plate needed) and he finds the Honda cranks are slightly better, the top end of the Predator is much more robust.
Edited by Play Farmer - 29 Jul 2020 at 8:09am |
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TramwayGuy ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11630 |
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Tecumseh, Evinrude and B&S. Before than, Waukesha and Wisconsin Engines. At one time, the state of Wisconsin was the largest producer of engines in the world.
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jeickman01 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 24 Feb 2017 Location: Dyer, TN Points: 210 |
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yes, in deed!!! we were once the leader in the industrial revolution. the car wasn't invented here but we were inventive enough to mass produce it. we were able to convert our industrial base in WW2 to produce all of the bombers, jeeps, and the atom bomb to win the war. We have discontinued high school shop classes, sold off all the table saws and started teaching the 1619 slavery curriculum and embraced all the excuses/justification for not being first/the best.
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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I get a kick out of the guys that preach "buy American" who brag about, and buy, Honda, Kawasaki. Predator, Suzuki, etc.
Same thing with cars. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, Hyundai and all the foreign brands, including Dodge and Ram who are owned by Fiat. They may have plants in the USA, but every cent of profit the corporation makes, goes back to the country where the company is headquartered.
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Play Farmer ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: NNY Points: 732 |
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Agreed. I buy North American brand stuff as much as reasonably possible.
Same brother with the go-karts bought a new Ferris mower a few years back (NICE mower BTW), he chose the Briggs over the Kawi. The commercial duty Briggs is a nice piece. Hard to lump all Briggs branded stuff together. If a company spec's a cheap motor thats what they'll get.
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EPALLIS ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1146 |
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It doesn't appear there is too much to worry about yet. I wrote corporate and here was their response:
We will be continuing operations as is. Thank you for your concern and sympathy. For further information, here is a link you can use for your reference. https://www. bascoreorganization.com/na/en_ us/restructuring-information. html If you have any further questions, please feel free to update this e-mail, or call Briggs & Stratton Branded Power Products Customer Support at 800-743-4115, M-F 8-5PM CST. |
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steelwheelAcjim ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Location: Blissfield,Mi Points: 1257 |
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That's what my local Simplicity dealer told me. They are moving Simplicity from Milwaukee to the Ferris plant in New York. Sales reps assured dealers that there would be no interruptions....for now.
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Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires!
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Rusty Allis ![]() Bronze Level Access ![]() Joined: 16 Jul 2020 Location: Rhode Island Points: 155 |
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the only thing made in America anymore is chinese wealth. sad I try to buy American...but it's about impossible if you're looking for quality anymore. the exception to that is your local/boutique shops/fabricators/manufacturers. anything from a "reputable" brand has so many global parts in it that it's sad. Made in the USA? not anymore. it's barely assembled in the USA. hell, even snap on has slid down hill. pretty sad when you can buy twice the tool for 1/8th the price at garbage freight (mostly) |
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