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Briggs & Stratton Bankruptcy

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steelwheelAcjim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steelwheelAcjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Briggs & Stratton Bankruptcy
    Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 10:56am
I posted this here instead of the garden tractor forum because a lot of us have used Briggs engines somewhere on our farms, homes and ranches. 

A friend emailed this link to me.

Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:31am
"The company warned that its losses, the pandemic and pending debt payments raised substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern. Yet in June, while it skipped a $6.7 million interest payment, the company awarded its executives and other key employees more than $5 million in cash retention awards."

BULLSH$T


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:32am
Been a good number of years since B&S made a motor i'd want to buy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:51am
I heard this was coming last Friday..... I hope Simplicity survives
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 2:37pm
That's not good,  I just bought a 735 grasshopper lawn mower last fall and went with the briggs over the kohler as there was no comparison on power.   Hope they emerge or sell to somebody that keeps on building the engines and parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 3:04pm
Hmm, maybe they got too briggs for their britches ???

Always find it 'interesting' that the fat cats up top ALWAYS pay themselves HUGE 'bonuses' for a job well done, like driving the company down the toilet...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 3:08pm
I think some company is looking to buy at a fraction of their worth due ti the giant debt load they took on. They started slipping big in 2009 and never really recovered, so I've read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 4:08pm
I've been pretty disappointed with their newer small motors post the "Eager-1" Craftsman era (grey mowers). The red ones pretty much burned oil and smoked since new (not a lot of nice things to say about Craftsman in that era either). I've got some older equipment with briggs that even though they burn a bit of oil, they are work horses like a 1980s Monkey Wards garden tiller and an old Craftsman snow blower. Rather spend money trying to keep them going than replace them with what they make now. Last push mower, I paid extra to get a Honda motor instead of a Briggs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 4:19pm
Unfortunately this is the America we live in, and have for 30+ years. Corporate  leaders drive companies under but take huge bonuses and golden parachutes. Most job losses to China, have not been China steeling our jobs, but corporate leaders sending them to China, so the stock holders can make more money. Briggs and Stratten, and many other companies have suffered from greedy corporate leaders. Buy American if you can, but it is hard to do in this day and age. Sorry for the rant.      Grant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 4:55pm
Kind of ironic that this info is on an AC forum. Is it possible that the same thing happened when AC went out? It would not surprise me. Most of us would have done the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 7:24pm
Not to hijack, but what happened to Tecumseh ?? Back in the '80's, a B/S was MUCH preferred WinkWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 7:56am
The old saying that they don’t make them like they used to applies to almost everything we buy these days. My AC tiller, B-208, and other garden equipment have B&S engines from the 70’s that still run very well. Repaired a fairly new zero turn mower with a B&S 28 hp for a friend that would not start, turn over actually. One would have thought possible battery or starter. As it turned out after some research, I had to adjust the compression relieve valves as they have to be adjusted every 100 hours. Fired up and ran well after that. We live in a throw away world I guess, not too many folks know how to work on their on stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 8:18am
Honda !!!!!
He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 8:22am
What killed B&S is the Chinese knockoff engines, perform as well or in some conditions better, insides are crude but stick with the program where the B&S are over technified/cheapened internally to the hilt and fail often.   Northstar engines are Chinese knockoffs, last a long time and cheap to buy, hard to get past that point when nearly 1/3 cheaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wbecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 4:56pm
Crap, I bought a new Ferris mower, it has a Briggs engine and in fact the entire unit is Briggs. I think they got into too many products instead of concentrating on what they had always done, engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 5:16pm
You bought a very good zero turn, should last you a long time. My concern is for my older AC garden stuff as parts are getting harder to find. A lot of parts not manufactured anymore. Who would have thought something like lift cables for a mower deck or sickle mower for my 720’s are no longer made? Ok, they are 45 years old but still going strong. Maybe that’s why they don’t want to make them so to force customers to buy something new. Hope we are not hitting the panic button too soon. Would be sad to see B&S go away like AC did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Ky.Allis Ky.Allis wrote:

Kind of ironic that this info is on an AC forum. Is it possible that the same thing happened when AC went out? It would not surprise me. Most of us would have done the same thing.


I replied re. this in

The reason why AC went out, occurred for similar reasons... Business, ie. management, plans, and processes were inappropriate with respect to change.

Let's say you're a Brontosaurus.  It's 105F, and thick-sticky-humid.  You stand in a swamp, eating the tops of trees, lay basketball-sized eggs in a nest the size of a 24x24 garage, and nothing comes near it, on account of 8 feet of water and lots of your long-necked friends.  The eggs hatch 90 days later, and your offspring start eating plants.  Within 100 days, they're capable of surviving the winter, when temperatures drop down to about 60F for 4 months.

A volcano erupts 12,000 miles away, sending billions of tons of ash into the upper atmosphere, and the sky grows dark.  15 days later, it's 50F.  What's left of your nest will not hatch, as it's too cold.  In another 50 days, the swamp is starting to freeze, and the leaves have all wilted, so there is no more food.  You don't know which way, or how far it is, to another swamp, but if you DID start walking, and found one, you'd find that it too was wilted and gone, with other brontosaurus nests raided and gone.  You could also attempt to eat other species, perhaps even other brontosaurus, but you'd find that process to be incompatible with your physical structure- You're huge, heavy, and slow... so you have no ability to attack and kill, and also to bite, swallow, and digest.  You could eat rocks, which although full of minerals, do not posess the kind of energy necessary to fuel a 48,000lb body with an 80-foot tail... and with no substantial source of fuel, it becomes impossible to maintain enough body heat to defend against smaller creatures less affected by the falling environmental temperature (like... those that developed FUR... and have 4-chamber hearts, smaller bodies, etc).

The reality here is that business economics is no different than basic survival:

When the environment changes, you have ONLY THREE CHOICES:

Move, Adapt, or DIE.

Moving, and adapting take resources... and unfortunately, the time of indecision, is a timeframe in which resources are continuing to be used, and in most cases, those resources are being used FASTER than previously assumed, because the changing environment is applying more strain.  This means that... the DECISION TIMEFRAME between MOVE and ADAPT... can become PIVOTAL in the success of avoiding DIE.

Like driving a car... the choice of stop or dodge may both be valid, but the TIME required to choose wether to STOP or DODGE, may be so short that by the time the decision is made, NEITHER will work... and this is the reason why keeping alert (fast reaction time) and leaving lots of stopping distance (decision time) is so desirable on motorway safety.

Thus... HE who Hesitates... is LOST.

Allis-Chalmers, like many other companies, was consumed by it's own complex amalgation... in common English:  Too many irons in-the-fire, and a clear case where the upper end of management was too focused on one side of the economic model (money going in one direction) than the other (goods and services in the other).  It placed itself into a position of overdependency on the current environment, and had insufficient resources in reserve, to provide for reaction time, choosing time, and action time, to survive.

The giveaway, is 'Mergers and Acquisitions'.  When ANY company is involved in a merger or acquisition, it is because of ONE REASON ONLY:  Weakness.

A company that is strong, never merges, and is never acquired.

A business that is 'owned' by something other than itself, is inherently weakened, because it's focus is no longer in that of it's primary economic model (customer transactions => cash flow), and instead, on maintaining the desire of the 'ownership' (yielding dividends).

The reason for this, is that Yielding dividends is a short-term goal... it occurs on a regular (quarterly, biannually, annually, etc) basis.  As a result, it is frequent that middle and upper management of a company become short-sighted, and thus, are attracted to taking actions that look 'good' on the next Q report.  While it would be great to post a 10 million profit for 2Q, there's more than one way to accomplish that-  first, is to generate a 20 million in product sales (at 50% profit), the other is to sell off your foundry for 8 million, fire 12 million in experienced labor, and outsource all that production as Just-In-Time contracting for 3Q.

The third option, is to post no change in sales, and post no dividends, but remain on a steady keel for another several years.  What makes more sense?

A LONG TERM vision doesn't focus on short-term yield... it keeps the basic economic model in place (good/services one way, money in the other), and stays focused on it, while looking to utilize the company's resources (particularly, it's scrap, surplus, and waste) into marketable product and resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 3:41pm
Too bad....I went to South Dakota State for school and learned that the first B&S engine was invented there by an engineering student, Stephen Briggs. It was actually a six cylinder two stroke. I believe the Ag Museum on campus up there has one of his early engines on display.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EPALLIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 9:19pm
"Briggs closed its plant in Port Washington in 2008".  Wasn't that the old original A-C location for the lawn and garden division?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC since 12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 11:03pm
Thanks for letting me know about Briggs & Stratton.  We lost Evinrude last month, now B&S. All the name brands that we grew up with are disappearing. Whats next Smith and Wesson?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Play Farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 5:15am
Maybe not Smith & Wesson but Remington Arms just filed bankruptcy too. Bad deal for everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 7:43am
Judging by the product they have been making the past few years, this doesnt surprise me. Had a Craftsjunk pressure washer with Briggs and Scrapiron on it. Backfired everytime you shut it off to the point it blew a head gasket. Wheels were falling of it because they were plastic and the hose and nozzle was junk when it was new so I scrapped the whole thing. Bought a new Water Cannon from the local JD dealer. Has a 5 HP Honda on it. 10 times the machine

B&S and Kohler cant hold a candle to Honda and Kawasaki 
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Play Farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 8:08am
^^^ I would agree on the Kawi part, Honda not-so-much. Like Briggs, they make some real junk to these days. It all depends on how it's spec'ed. 

My brother owns a couple of go-kart rental tracks. The karts come with Honda motors. When they fail, which doesn't normally take long, he replaces them with the Predator motors from Harbor Freight. $400 for a new Honda, $99.00 for a new Predator. 

Here's the crazy part; when he gets a new Predator the first thing he does is harvest the crankshaft from the Honda and bolts it into the Predator. It is a direct drop-in fit. It makes hooking up the transmission easier (no adapter plate needed) and he finds the Honda cranks are slightly better, the top end of the Predator is much more robust.  


Edited by Play Farmer - 29 Jul 2020 at 8:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 12:41pm
Tecumseh, Evinrude and B&S.  Before than, Waukesha and Wisconsin Engines.  At one time, the state of Wisconsin was the largest producer of engines in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeickman01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 5:46pm
yes, in deed!!!  we were once the leader in the industrial revolution.  the car wasn't invented here but we were inventive enough to mass produce it.  we were able to convert our industrial base in WW2 to produce all of the bombers, jeeps, and the atom bomb to win the war.  We have discontinued high school shop classes, sold off all the table saws and started teaching the 1619 slavery curriculum and embraced all the excuses/justification for not being first/the best.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 6:28am
I get a kick out of the guys that preach "buy American" who brag about, and buy, Honda, Kawasaki. Predator, Suzuki, etc.

Same thing with cars. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, Hyundai and all the foreign brands, including Dodge and Ram who are owned by Fiat. They may have plants in the USA, but every cent of profit the corporation makes, goes back to the country where the company is headquartered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Play Farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 7:08am
Agreed. I buy North American brand stuff as much as reasonably possible. 

Same brother with the go-karts bought a new Ferris mower a few years back (NICE mower BTW), he chose the Briggs over the Kawi. The commercial duty Briggs is a nice piece. Hard to lump all Briggs branded stuff together. If a company spec's a cheap motor thats what they'll get. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EPALLIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 9:00pm
It doesn't appear there is too much to worry about yet.  I wrote corporate and here was their response:
We will be continuing operations as is. 

Thank you for your concern and sympathy.

For further information, here is a link you can use for your reference.  https://www. bascoreorganization.com/na/en_ us/restructuring-information. html

If you have any further questions, please feel free to update this e-mail, or call Briggs & Stratton Branded Power Products Customer Support at 800-743-4115, M-F 8-5PM CST.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steelwheelAcjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 9:09pm
That's what my local Simplicity dealer told me. They are moving Simplicity from Milwaukee to the Ferris plant in New York. Sales reps assured dealers that there would be no interruptions....for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rusty Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 12:00am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

I get a kick out of the guys that preach "buy American" who brag about, and buy, Honda, Kawasaki. Predator, Suzuki, etc.

Same thing with cars. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, Hyundai and all the foreign brands, including Dodge and Ram who are owned by Fiat. They may have plants in the USA, but every cent of profit the corporation makes, goes back to the country where the company is headquartered.


the only thing made in America anymore is chinese wealth.

sad

I try to buy American...but it's about impossible if you're looking for quality anymore. the exception to that is your local/boutique shops/fabricators/manufacturers. anything from a "reputable" brand has so many global parts in it that it's sad. Made in the USA? not anymore. it's barely assembled in the USA.

hell, even snap on has slid down hill. pretty sad when you can buy twice the tool for 1/8th the price at garbage freight (mostly)

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