| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
WaltDevore 
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: A/C HD5G #9552
Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 6:19pm |
Hello Gentlemen,
So look forward to gaining some important advice. My tractor over the years with me out of the country accumulated water in the muffler through countless freeze thaw cycles. I cleaned everything up and tried to start it. It sounded fine turning over but even with starting fluid gave no hint of kicking in. No doubt the rings are toast. There is half life on the tracks and sprockets. Is the engine rebuildable? I was told it's a 2-72 engine but don't know about that. I'm in Colorado in the mountains just west of Denver. Any value in the tractor? It has both a blade and bucket. One idler is like new, the other completely worn. I have an excellent replacement for it, but not skilled enough to install it. There is also a cracked water jacket visible through the muffler side inspection cover. I have three layers of JB Weld on it. Don't know if that will do any good. I sure love the beast. It made my life for me. I have many pictures on a facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Allis-Chalmers-HD5G-109124077151035/?modal=media_composer
Thanks for whatever you can offer!
Edited by WaltDevore - 03 Jan 2020 at 6:23pm
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 6:35pm |
|
Is a 2/71 Detroit Diesel, likely the Governor control rack is stuck in OFF or No Fuel. Possibly one of the unit injectors is frozen in the off position and the rack will not allow the other to move. Are covers on the side of the engine opposite the blower, pull those and can see in the cylinders as bar the engine over, can see if really rusted or not.
Simple engines, dry sleeved but is a fitting process to rebuild them replacing sleeves. Pistons have wrist pin seals and MUST be vacuum checked when assembling, no head gasket just seal rings block to head is machined fit, liner height must be within spec or will leak and or blow the liner fire rings. If intent to do this older tools available on fleabay and other sites, a Detroit 71 series engine manual is a MUST Have.
|
|
NomoreJohnDeere
Silver Level
Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 6:38pm |
|
|
|
HD3
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 8:18pm |
|
I forgot to add that. I unhooked the line from the fuel pump and could not get any fuel to come out. I filled the tank with compressed air to try to push and still nothing. Mystery as to why the pump isn't pumping. I back tracked to first filter and fuel was getting that far. Possibly a plugged line? I don't quite remember, it's been a few months.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Jan 2020 at 8:24pm |
|
I do have the service manual.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 6:30am |
|
Fuel should flow gravity to the lift pump thru the filters, pull and blow air thru the lines, pull the air box intake off the blower and hand turn the engine see if the blower is rotating. Detroit's are known on older engines with enough set time corrosion to seize a blower and shear the drive splines, that in turn drives the lift pump.
|
|
Lee Bradley
Bronze Level
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Kingston, WA
Points: 117
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 7:59am |
|
That would also explain it no firing on starting fluid. No air through the engine.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 10:48am |
|
Thank you for the invaluable suggestion. Would that situation be repairable?
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41567
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 10:52am |
|
One 2-71 in a 5B I bought was locked up - seems someone plugged the drain hole in bottom of blower box - water froze andsheared one lobe off one rotor .
have rebuilt 2 engines complete with just the only special tool needed was height gauge to set injectors . Shimming the liners was a little tedious
Engine is easily rebuildable - you can check the compression by removing injectors and using a compression gauge with rubber tip into injector tube . Parts are interchangeable with all inline 71 series engines , the V 71 uses a different piston.
check the air shutoff and governor linkage work and rack is moving when throttle is moved also that air filter is not overfilled so air can't pass through element
|
|
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 10:53am |
|
I'm not where my tractor is right now. Can't wait to consult the manual and see how to do it.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 12:41pm |
|
I appreciate the encouragement. How miraculous to resurrect. Back to my idler, is it possible to replace the front idler without splitting the track? The track comes off so easily running it. I can't quite get it off so far with the side jacked up. I'd hope to put the new idler on with the adjuster all the way back and use a chain hooked to the track and forward tilt to pull track over new idler. Is that too optimistic?
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 12:44pm |
|
If rails worn enough have rolled my own off and back on, PITA but better than pounding pins.
|
|
dadsdozerhd5b
Orange Level
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Location: lansdale pa.
Points: 527
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 8:49pm |
|
Looked at your Facebook posts. Engine interior does not look too bad. I double the blower is bad as would have to get water through motor to intake if just the muffler was uncovered. Definitely looks like no fuel getting to it. Get fuel to it, then pull off the intake and put ether there directly. See if you get smoke or an attempt to fire. Drain a small amount of oil out of the pan to be sure none got into the lower end. I have had Detroit’s sit 20 years and can ge them to fire. Easy engine to work on also but may be cheaper to get a complete and swap. Rails on the undercarriage look in good shape, definitely worth the idler swap if you get it running. It is an early one by the serial number. Good luck,
|
|
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 11:22am |
|
Is it likely that the blower is reparable, maybe a shear pin, or will a replacement need to be scrounged?
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 3:13pm |
|
Blower drives are splined, if locked up the splines shear away in the drive coupler, easy enough to tell if not rotating will need to come off. IF sheared will have to change the Drive coupler(Flat Splined Plate) and shaft. Any decent Detroit Diesel repair parts shop can ID by Engine s/n. Blower is rebuildable and many times are exchange units available. Blower also drives governor.
Edited by DMiller - 05 Jan 2020 at 3:14pm
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 3:31pm |
|
Thanks everyone for lighting the darkness for me!!
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 12:37pm |
|
I have removed the governor and air pipe, ready to extricate blower. I don't know where or if to split it at the central assembly or does it all get removed to the front of the engine. I better not screw this up. What do you think? Thanks
|
|
dadsdozerhd5b
Orange Level
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Location: lansdale pa.
Points: 527
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 1:14pm |
|
Once the intake pipe is removed look at the blower lobes when cranking and see if they are spinning. If so it is not the blower. If not then you have some kind of issue. I have not personally had a blower off but I believe it comes off as an assembly.
|
|
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 5:17pm |
Looks like solid pieces in there. Do they rotate? I have no jumper cables right now so can't turn the engine over. If this rear shaft rotates, will that indicate the blower is good? 
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 5:19pm |
If this shaft is rotating, will that indicate the blower is functional? 
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 51629
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 5:27pm |
Looks like you have busted splines or some other foreign material, laying against the bearing. Maybe its an oil reflection, IDK... 
|
|
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 5:29pm |
|
It's the wire retainer for the ball bearings I think and a little puddle of oil. If this shaft doesn't turn, is that a bad blower?
|
|
NomoreJohnDeere
Silver Level
Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 7:59pm |
|
If you can't turn the splined shaft something is not right
|
|
HD3
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 5:59am |
|
Blower sitting on the ground, no governor and nothing else attached should roll with some resistance. Hanging on the engine is still connected to drive coupling. Either corrosion or metal displacement or bad bearing will lock one up, is only .0015 clearance when new lobe to lobe and I did not misplace a 0.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 1:25pm |
|
Well, the shaft rotates with the engine turning over. I sprayed ether into the air pipe opening and the engine air heater opening. Zero response. I guess a compression test is next without the injectors??
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 1:39pm |
|
Valve cover is off? Check the valves, only has Exhaust valve where if stuck open head will need come off.
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 1:47pm |
|
It seems the piston rings and valves are next. My guess. Can the piston rings be replaced without pulling the engine? My old 240Z was so easy, drop the pan and remove the head. These real life mysteries keep the feeling of being alive fresh.
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 1:53pm |
|
detroit pistons go in from the bottom.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 09 Jan 2020 at 1:55pm
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
WaltDevore
Bronze Level
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
Points: 143
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 3:32pm |
|
The action seems to be normal, at least the springs are being compressed and extended. Seems regardless now, after verifying no compression, to take head off, inspect the cylinders, pull pistons from bottom of engine, replace rings, and new machine?
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31048
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 6:46pm |
|
Cannot pull pistons from bottom, pulled as a Set with sleeves and installed same manner. Sleeves are loaded from bottom outside engine.
|
|
