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Mactractor 
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 Topic: Diesel Engine Oils
Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 7:47pm |
With the increasing torrent of 'environment friendly' oils replacing trusted ones, getting difficult to match one to older engines. AC operators manuals clearly stated that low sulphated ash oils were NOT to be used in 6000-11000 engines. Military spec was MIL-L-45199A which I can't find any reference to. Looking at specs of oils, medium or higher ash seems accompany higher calcium level (and alkalinity), higher levels of anti wear additives phosphorus and zinc, and higher TBN. They seem to be only recommended for European and Japanese truck engines. Would they not suit the AC engines? Posting this here because more guys with experience in oil testing and analysis seem to chime in than on construction section.
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DougG
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Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 9:26pm |
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Don't mean nothing,, run straight 30 wt oil,,,
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rw
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 10:00am |
Study the API Spec system and look to a Caterpillar heavy equipment dealer for oil sampling support. maybe even consider purchasing their oil if it fits the spec.
There are so many different types of specifications now days and lots of conflicting specs from engine manufacturers. I recently had to find oils for a couple machines at the construction company I work for. In talking to the representative from the corporate side of our oil supplier he said the reason there are so many new specs relates to optional extended warranty coverage and that standard warranty will allow you to use off the shelf products but optional extended warranty can make coverage conditional on the use of specified fluids.
Lots of the newer engines want lower viscosity oils for cold starts and fuel economy and the newer engines will live or maybe thrive on them. I tend to think this is the right prescription for the newer engines since the MFG is willing to pick up the repair tab.
I ran into a European spec that was not backward compatible to any API spec and that was a surprise to me.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 7:03pm |
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I would think a new 15w 40 Diesel oil would do fine in the old tractor. Lots of guys of ALL brands using new spec 15w 40 Diesel oil.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DougS
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 7:11pm |
 rw wrote:
I ran into a European spec that was notΒ backward compatible to any API spec and that was a surprise to me.
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European oils are different from API spec oils. Those with a VW will tell you that. My BMW manual instructed me to ONLY use C3 spec diesel motor oil.
Edited by DougS - 04 Aug 2019 at 7:12pm
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 7:12pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
I would think a new 15w 40 Diesel oil would do fine in the old tractor. Lots of guys of ALL brands using new spec 15w 40 Diesel oil. |
I've used 15W-40 diesel grade oil in every motor I own from 1 cylinders on up for at least 20 years.I don't have any newer vehicles or tractors though.
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 7:39pm |
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Have used Mobile DELVAC oil for Diesel engines.
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bigal121892
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 8:17pm |
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Can't use multi-viscosity oils in IH engines, they will use couple of gallons a day if you do.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 8:38pm |
bigal121892 wrote:
Can't use multi-viscosity oils in IH engines, they will use couple of gallons a day if you do. |
I use 15W-40 in my IH 464 with no problems
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 8:52pm |
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YEP...... (milti viscosity bad) that's an OPINION based on your experience I guess........... LOTS of people use 15w40 oil in IH tractors.... no problems after 30 years.
Edited by steve(ill) - 04 Aug 2019 at 8:52pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Mike Kroupa
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Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 9:15pm |
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We're Mobil Delvac 15W-40 fans and users also for almost 40 years now. The DT530 in the 9775 gets along just fine and with its HEUI fuel system, a high detergent oil is a must. When the DD 12.7L 60 Series engine came out, Delvac 15W-40 was specified as the factory fill. To each their own though., Mike
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caledonian
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 7:04am |
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User of Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40 for about 40 years also in all our farm engines. Wouldn't use anything else.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 8:36am |
There have been 'oil threads' on the Red Power board that got rather ugly. People pretty passionate on both sides. The little I have read of them I just decided to run CaseIH 30 Wt. in my 1066. With the amount of hours I put on the old girl my savings for using bargain oil would be a few $$ a year at best. If you have to change a cam and lifters because of bad oil that gets into money.
I use a lot of 15-40 Rotella in other things.
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TimCNY
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 9:04am |
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Well, the manual for my 6140 states in bold all-caps absolutely not to use a multi-viscosity oil, but then the oil-temperature range chart shows 10W-30 for temps below 32*F...
So, are you guys saying go ahead and use 15W-40 (I use Rotella for some other equipment) in the engines of my 6140 and WD45? I hope this isn't considered hijacking the thread.
Thanks,
- Tim
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TimCNY
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 9:07am |
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FWIW, so far I've only been using Rotella straight 30W in those 2 engines.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 10:36am |
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Tim, I run 15-40 Rotella in my 45's. If you're manual says to run straight weight, I'd listen to it, though the 10w30 thing is a little confusing.
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DougS
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 10:41am |
TimCNY wrote:
FWIW, so far I've only been using Rotella straight 30W in those 2 engines. |
Tell me you're running straight weight 30 in Upstate New York in the winter. That's harder on an engine than running 10W in the summer.
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TimCNY
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 12:01pm |
Well, Doug, I could tell you that but I'd be lying.  No, I'm talking about right now, warm seasons. I'm disinclined to vary from recommended lubrication, but there's always the fact oils have changed drastically over the years, and much of the advice to be found is to go ahead and use (fill-in-the-blank) oil instead; so I'm wondering about it, looking for clarification.
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jeickman01
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 3:08pm |
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May have strayed from the original question in this thread but here's more. And since none of us seem to be oil experts. I think that there was a time prior to Tier 3 and Tier 4 diesels that ash was used increase both the TBN in order to neutralize the acids from high sulphur fuel and to add to the detergent properties. One certainly didn't want to switch to a high ash oil on a high hour engine after the rings were carboned up from a non detergent oil and happily seated. And with the advent of diesel particulate filters which plug with ash deposits and government mandated low sulphur fuels the ash levels were reduced. I should think it would be safe to use a current API CK4 on an early engine.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 4:05pm |
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Best oil you can ever use is the kind changed often.π€ And yes I may be repeating myself.ππππππ
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
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bigal121892
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 6:16pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
YEP...... (milti viscosity bad) that's an OPINION based on your experience I guess........... LOTS of people use 15w40 oil in IH tractors.... no problems after 30 years.
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Not an opinion, comes straight from the dealer. Had 1480 combine, was using two gallons a day, dealer told us absolutely no multi-viscosity oil, only use straight 30.
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Mactractor
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Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 6:28pm |
Thanks jeickman, That sheds some light on the subject for me. It would perhaps be a mistake to go to the higher ash Euro/Jap engine oil in my old tractors after they have ran on low ash Caterpillar/Cummins suited oils. Something I liked the look of in that higher ash oil though, was the higher level of anti wear additives Phosphorus and Zinc, which seem to be declining in modern oils.
Edited by Mactractor - 05 Aug 2019 at 6:34pm
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Tbone95
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Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 6:47am |
bigal121892 wrote:
steve(ill) wrote:
YEP...... (milti viscosity bad) that's an OPINION based on your experience I guess........... LOTS of people use 15w40 oil in IH tractors.... no problems after 30 years.
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Not an opinion, comes straight from the dealer. Had 1480 combine, was using two gallons a day, dealer told us absolutely no multi-viscosity oil, only use straight 30. |
Not trying to argue with you, but that just seems and sounds very odd! WTH does multi viscosity have to do with using oil, other than the top end of the engine is in terrible shape, and usage would be during start up and warm up???? Just sounds like a very odd statement...
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Mactractor
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Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 3:02pm |
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IMHO the choice of either mono or multi viscosity oil is nowhere near as important as the additive package in the oil you want is. In bygone years, the range of straight 30 weight oils available included many with additives for severe duty diesel service. In my corner of the world, those have all but disappeared and to get those good anti wear additives you have to go multi weight. I now only use straight 30 in the Briggs & Stratton and Honda air cooled gasers, and even Honda are recommending 10W30 now down here.
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festus51
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Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 4:19pm |
I might get the evil eye from some people , but I got tired of stocking multiply oils for all the different engines I have. Quite a few years ago I started putting 15-40 diesel oil in every thing. Pick ups, car, tractor diesel engines. gas engines , motorcycle, lawn mower . sure simplifies oil buying. I figure it is a step above gas engine oils with high detergents plus the higher pressures of diesel engine. I have had no problems yet knock on wood.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 2:32am |
festus51 wrote:
I might get the evil eye from some people , but I got tired of stocking multiply oils for all the different engines I have. Quite a few years ago I started putting 15-40 diesel oil in every thing. Pick ups, car, tractor diesel engines. gas engines , motorcycle, lawn mower .sure simplifies oil buying. I figure it is a step above gas engine oils with high detergents plus the higher pressures of diesel engine. I have had no problems yet knock on wood. |
I did that about 20 years ago,so far so good.
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bigal121892
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Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 6:46am |
Tbone95 wrote:
bigal121892 wrote:
steve(ill) wrote:
YEP...... (milti viscosity bad) that's an OPINION based on your experience I guess........... LOTS of people use 15w40 oil in IH tractors.... no problems after 30 years.
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Not an opinion, comes straight from the dealer. Had 1480 combine, was using two gallons a day, dealer told us absolutely no multi-viscosity oil, only use straight 30. |
Not trying to argue with you, but that just seems and sounds very odd! WTH does multi viscosity have to do with using oil, other than the top end of the engine is in terrible shape, and usage would be during start up and warm up???? Just sounds like a very odd statement... |
Dad bought the combine used from the local dealer, we got it home, changed all of the fluids, and put 15W40 in it just like we had in everything else. Combine used two gallons of oil the first day. Called dealer, (thinking we were sold a combine with a bad engine) dealer said drain the 15W40 out, and put straight 30W in. Did that, and the combine would use a quart every 100 hours until it was traded 3 years latter.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 6:51am |
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didn't mean I didn't believe ya'.........Just doesn't make sense to me is all.
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Lonn
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Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 7:30am |
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When I worked at the CaseIH dealership some customers wanted 10W in the winter and 30W in the summer. Some used 10W-30 in the winter and 15W-40 in the summer. Our shop told them to use which ever they are comfortable with. I never noticed anyone complaining that their engine burned more using multi viscosity oils but most had their preferences. We actually sold a lot of Farm Oyl brand oils and some swore by that brand over CaseIH brand. One guy had an 856 he bought new and put many thousands of hours on it and the engine was still original and it got Farm Oyl straight weights from new. Not sure if he's still alive as it seemed he was older than dirt 20 years ago but I drive by his place and see his son and grandsons still driving that old 856.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 8:11pm |
We run 15w40 Rotella in the XT and 433 combine engine year/around, now that I think about it, they sit dormant in the unheated barn from late November through early April. I am more concerned about the anti freeze that are in these 2 radiators, pretty sure they are NOT filled with a diesel compatible solution  . Didn't realize there was a difference until I got on this forum 
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