| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
peterpower049 
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: A/C 615 no start
Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 9:22pm |
|
Hi, guys I'm new here. I'm working on getting my grandfather's old 615 backhoe running again and i ran into an issue i haven't seen till now. The backhoe has been sitting for a few years due to a transmission leak which cause it to stop moving under load. That is hopefully fixed now. I drained out the old diesel and put in some fresh stuff, cleaned the sediment bowl, changed the fuel filter and bleed the system to the injection pump. My problem is i have no fuel getting to the injectors. The rig ran great when my grandpa parked it about 6-7 years ago. But i pulled a banjo bolt off of the cylinder 1 injector line and no fuel comes out. Is there some sort of fuel shut off solenoid in the injector pump that has malfunctioned? Or is something else wrong? I really want to have this thing running again.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41979
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 9:48am |
|
After changing filters Unless you primed everything, you could be air locked at the pump . Might have to get it to start using WD40 or either to run on to bleed all the air out.
does it use a fuel pump on the engine ? that also could be not working properly or ?
|
|
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8612
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 11:09pm |
|
have heard of metering valve sticking as well as vanes in supply pump when parked with BIO diesel on Roosa pumps.Hope no bio involved.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 8:38am |
|
Here's what doesn't make sense i don't see a supply/lift pump anywhere on this backhoe. the fuel lines run from the tank to the sediment bowl then the filter head and then to the injection pump. And i can't find any sort of primer on the injection pump. Any no Bio diesel was used in this rig. Isn't there some sort of fuel shut off solenoid somewhere?? Because all these symptoms is leading me to believe that the injection pump is just bypassing the fuel back to the tank and not letting it build pressure
Edited by peterpower049 - 04 Dec 2017 at 8:43am
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41979
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 9:27am |
|
fuel shut off is lever on side of pump - you can check that it is moving to it's full travel when cable is moved .
|
|
Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 10:15am |
|
If it is the old Stanadyne pump it has a small gear pump in the head where the line from the tank connects.
If the fuel flow to the pump is good(remove line and see if flows) then there is a return line on the top of the pump, usually on a slightly angled fitting. Pull the line off, then pull the fitting and see if has blockage. That fitting HAS to BE free to release excess pump pressure or will not run.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 10:47am |
Do mean in the filter head or the cylinder head? But i took the return line off and i have clean fuel flowing through the fitting, and i cracked a line at an injector and i have clean fuel there too.
Also my battery has now died and it's on the charger but i think the starter or the solenoid stuck because i shut the key off and it kept cranking
|
|
Ages Cat
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hutchinson, MN
Points: 700
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 4:07pm |
|
The fuel shutoff cable may be moving, but you may have to take the cover off the fuel shutoff and assure that it is moving. Is it Roosa master pump?
|
|
Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
|
|
nickia
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: alden iowa
Points: 791
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 4:16pm |
|
take a wire connect it to the top of your injector pump and run the other end up to the postive side of your battery should have white smoke coming from the exhaust when cranking over. i have a break in my wiring some where and this is how i start my 615
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 12:08pm |
|
Okay so I took a look inside the injection pump everything looks fine and moves freely, now i have a problem with the starter sticking. As soon as i connect the battery the engine starts cranking over. I just installed a new started solenoid/relay what ever you want to call it and wired it the same way it was wired before hand. But still the key is off and starts cranking. Can someone post a pic of how you have your rig wired on the starter relay. just so I know if I have something wrong. I didn't have this problem before until the other day when the battery died. I think i set the self-crank switch without realizing it and now it seems to be stuck.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 2:13pm |
|
Will find the Bendix is hung into the flywheel. Tap on the main starter housing with a larger hammer, will hear it clunk as it releases. They usually do that when the large solenoid contact points basically weld themselves together.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 6:40pm |
|
I pulled the starter out and replaced the solenoid, and i did notice the Bendix seemed to be stuck extended. But foolishly i re-installed the starter and still it want to crank over as soon as I hook up the battery.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:43pm |
|
So I pulled the starter out for the second time, and I took it all part. It's seems that the bendix is stuck extended. And it's won't retract at all. Can any one tell me if it's possible to replace it. Cause I notice people sell a new bendix but I don't see how to take the old one off
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:56pm |
|
Is possible it is hung on the shaft, if the drive fork is loose but the Bendix not will need some penetrant along the shaft and a little love tapping to get it to slide off. Usually on Delco style starters the nose section needs to come off to slide the Bendix off as well the solenoid need be removed, there is a pivot pin that will need to come out to shift the fork up and away from the Bendix. Take serious care as can displace the brushes at the other end or bust one if side pressure one of them.
|
|
tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 10866
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 2:27pm |
He still has a problem if the stater turn as soon as he connect the battery.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 3:45pm |
So i took my starter apart, and i have the bendix off the shaft. It seems the bendix is stuck half extended. And there is a problem on the shaft where it's keeping the bendix from returning to its resting state. I found a replacement bendix for $45 so i'm gonna give it a shot.
Edited by peterpower049 - 14 Dec 2017 at 3:53pm
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 4:11pm |
|
There is a mechanism inside the Bendix head the is damaged not allowing to retract, easier to get a replacement at this point.
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 1:25pm |
|
Does anyone know where I can find the data plate/ serial number on my 615? I ordered a new bendix and it was the wrong one. So I need to find the serial number and get the right bendix
|
|
Ages Cat
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hutchinson, MN
Points: 700
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 3:54pm |
|
The serial number of the tractor is stamped on the left bell housing. More importantly, use the part number from the starter. It is a Delco 1107548 starter per the parts book. The drive AC number should be 70235833. The problem is that a lot of this stuff is now made in China and it is poor at best. Try Dunmire Equipment in El Paso, Ill. 309-527-6300.
|
|
Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 12:28pm |
|
Okay so I got a new Bendix and reinstalled the starter, but i'm still having the same problem. When i go to hook up the negative side of the battery the cable arcs like crazy and actually melted the terminal a little bit. I changed both solenoids and tried to isolate the problem by disconnecting the ignition switch and the start switch. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a 615? I want to go through all the wiring at this point.
|
|
Hyperpack
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Location: 54806
Points: 65
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 1:21pm |
The old bendix you removed is called a follow through bendix, it will not retract till the engine starts and spins it fast enough to centrifugally throw the pin out so the gear can retract. As far as starter keeps spinning, the solenoid contacts must be stuck/welded closed. Hyperpack
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 2:37pm |
|
I replaced both solenoids so I don't believe that a solenoid is sticking
|
|
Ages Cat
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hutchinson, MN
Points: 700
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 8:12pm |
|
Remember, the gas version is positive ground, the diesel is negative ground per the Service Manual.
|
|
Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 8:49am |
|
I have it hooked up the way it was before, and it worked fine before, but the tractor has been sitting for the past 7 year untouched because my grandfather thought it needed a clutch when there was a leak in the transmission and it would stop moving
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 9:22am |
|
The transmission leak is fixed now, but my problem is that the starter had constant power for some reason
|
|
Hyperpack
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Location: 54806
Points: 65
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 10:05am |
Why are there 2 solenoids for this type of starter? Instead of Believing the solenoid is not sticking because you replaced them, They need to be tested to prove they are not and understand how they must to be wired to work. Often the solenoid bolts are used as a junction, It would be easy to get wires on the wrong side of a switch/solenoid to keep things powered up. It would take 20 minutes to find the switch/solenoid thats bad or the wires in the wrong place. Hyperpack
|
|
Ian Beale
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
Points: 994
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 3:33pm |
|
As the auto electrician I deal with explained it
The solenoid on the starter can have a very high initial current draw - he mentioned around 80 amps. So the second solenoid is used to take the load off the starter switch circuit.
|
|
tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 10866
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 1:59pm |
If it set that long maybe something has chewed the wires and there is bare wires touching some place causing the problem
|
|
peterpower049
Bronze Level
Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Location: Belvidere, NJ
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 9:51am |
|
Can anyone please get me a wiring diagram for this tractor i'm just gonna make a new harness for it because it's all chopped up from previous owners
|
|
LeonR2013
Orange Level
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 10:03pm |
Could it be a 24V? They have two solenoids and a wiring nightmare.
|
|
