| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Nick D 
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Jun 2023
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 6
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Allis b Rebuild
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:05am |
|
Hello my grandfather’s B engine is on its way out and I was wondering who sells the best rebuild kit and what special tools I will need. Thanks Nick
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Shane1304
Bronze Level
Joined: 23 May 2023
Location: Ohio
Points: 16
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 11:20am |
|
So far I have been very pleased with All States AG Parts. I am rebuilding a 1942 C and have been using almost everything ordered from them. Since this is a new project I can't speak on longevity yet. Steiner has a good reputation as well but I haven't had as much interaction with them. Farmtractorrepair.com has good prices and great how-to-videos available on their web site as well as YouTube.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 1:36pm |
i would guess there are only a couple manufacturers and everyone is selling basically the same kit..
You really dont need any "special tools"... Most of the NEW KITS have oversize bore pistons and so them come with new liners... Getting the old liners out and cleaning the block is sometimes a problem... everything else is pretty standard..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 1:40pm |
here is a 2 part movie you could watch.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFt4WggNeh4
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Jun 2023 at 1:41pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 1:42pm |
here he shows pulling the sleeves.. You can use a puller if you have access to one ( or a section of all-thread and a couple blocks ) or you can use a block of wood and 5 pound sledge from the bottom....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFt4WggNeh4
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Jun 2023 at 1:45pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Nick D
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Jun 2023
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 6
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 3:16pm |
|
How do I tell what bearing I would need?
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 6:10pm |
|
I assume your talking about the MAIN bearings on the crank and the ROD bearings on the piston rod..... You need to take the motor apart and see what you have presently.. ORIGINALLY the tractor had a few thousandths of shims between the block and the bearing cap.. When you got a couple thousandths wear, you could remove shims to get back into tolerance ( proper clearance.) .... if a crank gets worn too much, then the journals are turned down .010 or .020 inch back to round, and smaller ID bearings are supplied... You need to verify what you have, and what condition the journals are in at this time.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 6:14pm |
If you dont have an IT service manual, you might want to get one..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Nick D
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Jun 2023
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 6
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 8:51pm |
|
I actually have two manuals and the complete sheet of work that’s been done to it over the years. Also what should I use to measure the bearings? (I’ve never fooled with the internals of an engine before)
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:17pm |
|
you need a micrometer or at least a dial caliper.. Something that is repeatable to .001 inch... then you can use plastic-gauge when you set the bearings to make sure the clearance is good.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:21pm |
something like this is probably good enough and relatively cheap... You should practice by measuring a couple dozen bolt diameters to make sure you get the hang of it..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Dusty MI
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5060
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:23pm |
|
I've got one, just like it, that I use on my 14"x40" lathe.
|
|
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:27pm |
The one above will measure something 6 inches in diameter... If you spend a little more money you can get a 12 inch, possibly a little better quality.... they all read to .001 inch
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Jun 2023 at 10:27pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:29pm |
it just takes practice to get good........
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 10:38pm |
once you measure the CRANK journals and know the size, then you can order standard bearing or other size ( if crank has been machined)... Then you use the plastigauge and can determine bearing clearances and add or subtract shims as needed..
when you take the bearing caps OFF the first time, punch mark them * , ** , *** on the cap and the block.. you dont want to mix them or flip one end for end... do the same for the connecting rods..
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Jun 2023 at 10:39pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Nick D
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Jun 2023
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 6
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 8:24am |
|
Ok I will get one of those do I need to split tractor to take off oil pan. Thank you for all the help
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 8:53am |
No, you can take the oil pan off without splitting tractor... If your going to pull the sleeves and install new pistons and bearings... MOST would suggest you split the tractor and put the engine on a stand so you can rotate it and get UP CLOSE to your work.
You can leave the crank and the sleeves in the motor if they look good... and pull the pistons , hone and put new rings "if things look good".... but i would not do that. Pull the sleeves and your going to see 70 years of CRUD built up inside the water jacket around the liners... Your going to find the o-rings on the bottom of the liners are HARD and possibly cracked... Now is the time to take EVERYTHING apart and see what you got... I have reused the liners and pistons and just put in new rings and o-rings .( if things look decent). but you have to KNOW what you got, and you need to CLEAN out the block prior to reassembly.
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Jun 2023 at 8:59am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Fred in Pa
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Hanover Pa.
Points: 9210
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 12:09pm |
|
That is not a Caliper to use for checking a crank the proper way .
|
|
He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 1:16pm |
what Fred is suggesting is to purchase a micrometer set... You get ONE that goes 0-1 inch, one that goes 1-2 inch and one that goes 2-3 inch... That should do everything on a B tractor Journal ...... But to check INTERNAL diameters, you would need a snap gauge or internal set ...
The QUALITY of measurements is 50% the TOOL and 50% WHO is using it.. I would agree a micrometer gives you more "FEEL"... but you can do quite a bit INTERNAL and EXTERNAL with a caliper.
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Jun 2023 at 4:36pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 1:21pm |
internal gauge set to use with micrometers.... You can buy high quality much more expensive micrometers... I have a set that cost hundreds of dollars.... im just showing for reference, that you dont have to spend a fortune to get good measurements.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Fred in Pa
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Hanover Pa.
Points: 9210
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 3:24pm |
|
Close only counts in Horse Shoes , LOL (depending on who you are playing )
|
|
He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
|
|
Bill Long
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bel Air, MD
Points: 4556
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 4:08pm |
Nick, I cannot give you any technical advice since it has been YEARS since I was involved in rebuilds. I can only Cheer You On to restore the B, My favorite Allis Chalmers tractor. My father had a small A-C dealership in Maryland. Let me wish you the very best. Let us know how it comes along. Good Luck! Bill Long PS: There is a dealer called Sandy Lake that may still be a sponsor here. They have a very good reputation.
|
|
Nick D
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Jun 2023
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 6
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 9:42pm |
|
That’s funny I didn’t think anyone still sold Allis stuff other than agco.
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1386
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 9:47pm |
 Fred in Pa wrote:
That is not a Caliper to use for checking a crank the proper way . |
Agreed that there are better tools for the job. But I have won gentleman's wagers (no money, just braggin' rights) using quality vernier calipers; used properly they are adequate on these engines.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 88582
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 10:04pm |
your not building a race engine.... A GOOD caliper used by a GOOD operator can measure less than a thousandth..... The MAIN GOAL is to determine if the crank journal is out of round , or turned 10- 20 undersize... The caliper will EASILY do that.. You get the right bearings, then shim and test with plastigauge to get the clearance... You dont need to be reading 10ths of a thous...
I normally use the micrometers, but like Les , i can use a caliper to get VERY accurate readings.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
JimD
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Mounds, OK
Points: 2116
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jun 2023 at 10:13am |
|
There are several of us that sell kits. And a few of us that know what we are selling :) Ive rebuilt quite a few engines. Ill be happy to help you know the differences in the kits. My number is posted in my signature
|
Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543
|
|
