D 17 Diesel Clutch / Power Director ?

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   I have a D17 Series 3 Diesel that has some strange things going on with the engine clucth/power director. With tractor in gear the engine clutch does not always disengage the pto or the transmission with the power director in either hi or low as it should. If the tractor is in motion, a simple bump of the brakes lets the clutch disengage the transmission. Sitting at idle,  with the power director in the nuetral position and the engine clutch depressed a quick pop of the power director lever in either direction usually disengages the pto and transmission allowing the transmission to be put into gear and the pto lever to be shifted into gear. Anyone have an idea as to what is going on ? The engine clutch is positive and not slipping.  Do I have an engine clutch problem ? A power director problem ? Both ? It is still very usable, just a bit annoying. I will likely go into it this winter. I would like to know if this is as unusual as it seems or am I experiencing the slow failure of one or both of these components ?  I look forward to your replies.

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Tyee II Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Location: Scappoose OR Points: 66	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tyee II Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D 17 Diesel Clutch / Power Director ? Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 6:25pm
	I have a D17 Series 3 Diesel that has some strange things going on with the engine clucth/power director. With tractor in gear the engine clutch does not always disengage the pto or the transmission with the power director in either hi or low as it should. If the tractor is in motion, a simple bump of the brakes lets the clutch disengage the transmission. Sitting at idle, with the power director in the nuetral position and the engine clutch depressed a quick pop of the power director lever in either direction usually disengages the pto and transmission allowing the transmission to be put into gear and the pto lever to be shifted into gear. Anyone have an idea as to what is going on ? The engine clutch is positive and not slipping. Do I have an engine clutch problem ? A power director problem ? Both ? It is still very usable, just a bit annoying. I will likely go into it this winter. I would like to know if this is as unusual as it seems or am I experiencing the slow failure of one or both of these components ? I look forward to your replies.

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Clay Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 8806	Post Options Post Reply Quote Clay Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 8:15pm
	Have you checked the fluid level?

Tyee II Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Location: Scappoose OR Points: 66	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tyee II Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 12:53am
	Fluid level is good. I am running an allis spec 821 hydraulic fluid. Could the fluid itself possibly be a problem ?

Clay Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 8806	Post Options Post Reply Quote Clay Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 2:17am
	No, unless the fluid is dirty. According to the operating instructions on page 9 of my tractor manual: Hydraulic oil should be changed twice/year. Hydraulic pump capacity is 9-3/4 quarts. Magnetic drain plug located in bottom of pump housing should be cleaned when draining. Hydraulic fill is located on the right side of the tractor aft of belt pulley. [Do not confuse with transmission fill located on the front right top side of the gear box cover.] Power Director capacity is 8.5 quarts. Drain and refill twice a year. Power Director filler is located on the front top left corner of transmission housing. Be careful to keep the area clean before removing the hex cover. Transmission capacity 24 quarts. Drain and refill once/year. Hydraulic Pump, Transmission and Power Director all use 821. Not sure if the fluid is the issue but rather a mechanical problem. Are all the linkages in good condition? Perhaps DR. Allis could help. Edited by Clay - 07 Jul 2010 at 2:22am

Matt (Jordan,MN) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Jordan, MN Points: 3757	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt (Jordan,MN) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 2:19am
	I would look at the engine clutch. I had this problem with the D19 gas. I had to put in a new clutch disc and the bolts that thread in the pressure plate fingers and a throwout bearing. The clutch disc was worn thin and the bolt heads were worn off from rideing against the throwout bearing so when you pushed in the clutch it wouldn't quite disingage. This tractor had a cermaic clutch in it so it never slipped. Hope this helps Matt

Clay Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 8806	Post Options Post Reply Quote Clay Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 2:46am
	I re-read your original post. Matt is probably correct. You may want to obtain an "I&T Shop Service" Manual. Edited by Clay - 07 Jul 2010 at 2:49am

D-17_Dave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Mocksville NC Points: 990	Post Options Post Reply Quote D-17_Dave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 8:53am
	Likely the clutch disc is sticking to the flywheel due to wear or the splines on the input shaft are distorted causing a bind in the clutch disc splines. It should float on the shaft freely so even rust or dirt could cause the disc not to seperate properly and drag.

skipwelte Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: Anthon, Iowa Points: 723	Post Options Post Reply Quote skipwelte Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 9:48am
	You may have facing coming off the clutch plate wandering around in there and when it gets under another facing it will cause the clutch not to release, usually wont release at all. Take the bottom cover off and look up in there with a flashlite to see if the throw bearing is riding on the release levers and clean out any nasty stuff if there is any in there. Could be the clutch plate is hanging up a little, spray some penatrating oil if the shaft looks rusty. Also it is possible the pilot bearing in the flywheel is locking up, which will act like the clutch isnt releasing. Sometimes just slipping the clutch will burnish it enough so when it cools down it will release better, tie it to a tree and slip the clutch until its good and warm, let it cool down and see if works better. Used to have to do that on Series IVs when we put a new clutch in as they didnt want to release all the way. HTH

Calvin Schmidt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4515	Post Options Post Reply Quote Calvin Schmidt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 9:51am
	I have the same problem with a D-19 gas. The engine clutch also slips under load so a new clutch is needed.
	Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed

Tyee II Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Location: Scappoose OR Points: 66	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tyee II Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 12:22am
	Hi Thanks for all of the input. I took a look and the splined shaft is rusty looking. i sprayed it with some penetrant. I baled with it today and I actually think it was behaving a bit better. I will try some more cleaning and penetrant. This thing sees a fair amount of our Northwest weather. Things tend to get stiff and sticky. If this does not change things, I just may chain it to a tree and see if I can free it up. I do not have much to lose, I will pull it apart this winter and find thre problem. Thanks again.

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33652	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 2:27am
	Sounds like what my diesel does too. Want it to stop with the foot clutch, you have to stand on the brakes and maybe wiggle hand clutch between hilo ranges too. Figured I had worn input shaft/clutch splines. No amount of tree pulling will cure that problem.