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steve(ill) 
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 Topic: B engine oil pressure?
Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:47pm |
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that old WIX/ Napa oil filter probably was the cause of low pressure in the engine and possibly the "knock"... like Dick said, check the bearings / clean / reshim and possibly save from overhaul....... Make sure your using a good weight motor oil.. In the winter, 30 wt is a little thick and will take a while to build up pressure or travel thru that SMALL tube up to the rockers.. 10 wt or 10w30 would be much better right now.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dick L
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:16pm |
 LeonR2013 wrote:
It's been so long since I worked on those little engines that I don't remember it they have welch plugs in the head or not. If it does you might replace them on the off chance that they are seeping. Also, if the cork plugs in the end of the rocker shaft are getting loose you can lose oil pressure out the end of the shaft. |
No pressure ever in the rocker arm tube! Oil just dribbles out around the hold down bolts and over the top of the rocker arms from its action. Pressure would cause squirting.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 2:39pm |
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It's been so long since I worked on those little engines that I don't remember it they have welch plugs in the head or not. If it does you might replace them on the off chance that they are seeping. Also, if the cork plugs in the end of the rocker shaft are getting loose you can lose oil pressure out the end of the shaft.
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AJ
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 7:40am |
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Thanks Dick, I was planning to take the pan off next anyway. Good to know there might be a chance of salvaging the engine with a few shims removed. Goes I won't know till I get her open. I really don't want to rebuild this engine because it's not going to get ran a lot and hate to put a new engine in something that is going to sit more through the year that ran. The engine seam to have a little more compression now than it did prior.
Edited by AJ - 09 Jan 2017 at 7:46am
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Dick L
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 7:32am |
It might be time to remove the pan and check rod bearings and the clearance. You might be able to remove shims and get rid of the knock. If you run it much wondering you could go by the chance to remove the knock without grinding the crankshaft. (MIGHT) being the key word. When checking the clearance make sure after you place the plastigage on the rod cap and before you tighten the rod cap that you back the crankshaft up so it moves the piston up a little. You need the journal against the rod bearing so you are not smashing the plastigage while pulling the piston down while tightening the rod cap. I hope you luck keeps running good on this engine.
If you get the knock out get some seafoam in the new oil to loosen up the rings. You might bring up the compression after running it a while.
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AJ
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 7:17am |
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Seems there is a sound coming from the clutch area or near the front of the engine. Maybe both.
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AJ
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 7:13am |
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I took the rocker assembly off and check that slotted rocker bolt like was suggested. Took bolt and all out. Took the little supply line off that goes from brass Tee on side of head down to the fork that comes off the oil pump. Blew air through everything. Reassembled most of it. Before I put the little line on the oil pump Tee I cranked the engine a couple revolutions to see if oil would come out since I knew oil was getting to the oil filter side. I did get oil to come out the other side by cranking the engine. So I put the little line back on primed it with my oil can and put the other end on. Started the engine and put it at a slow idle. Impatiently waited for the oil to come out the top of the rocker arms. Seems like it took for ever. Guess it has to fill that whole tube up that the rocker move on. Finally got oil coming out the top. Engine as a knock somewhere tho, I can't tell where its coming from.
Edited by AJ - 09 Jan 2017 at 7:13am
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Tbone95
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 6:58am |
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So what did you do to get oil pressure? Just running time?
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AJ
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 6:33am |
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It did have a little water in the bottom of the pan when I pushed it in the shop. Drained that and put in some used oil to check engine over to see if it was worth a darn before dumping brand new oil in.
The knock is what worries me.
Edited by AJ - 09 Jan 2017 at 6:34am
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Ted J
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 5:55am |
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What Gary said.......I noticed the color in the picture right away! Not a good thing.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Gary in Texas
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Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 4:42am |
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Looks like the oil may have some moisture in it, a like bit milky.
I would pressurize the cooling system and recheck for water, and change oil soon
Gary in Texas
Edited by Gary in Texas - 09 Jan 2017 at 4:47am
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Ted in NE-OH
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Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 8:35pm |
You could have lost prime which requires you to shoot oil from oil can down the oil pump exit tube. If that solves it watch it and if it happens again you will meed to fix it. The cause will be the check valve (ball) in the rotor of the oil pump. Speaking from experience, I have a B mower that lost oil pressure and I unknowingly ran it a couple of hours without oil pressure and now the motor knocks badly, so an overhaul is in order.  |
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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AJ
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Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 8:11pm |
Seems to have really good oil pressure now. Took it forever to start putting out oil at the rockers. I think the engine seems to have a little knock to it simular to a small diesel would. When I took the manifold of the other night I noticed there was alot of carbon built up on the valves in the head. Not sure if that could be a culprit or not. Can't tell where it coming from exactly.  
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AJ
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Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 7:59pm |
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I think I got it now.
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Dick L
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Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 7:57pm |
AJ wrote:
Ok, put a correct filter on it (fram) and cranked it. No oil pressure on the gauge. Took filter back off, cranked again to see if oil if pumping. Oil does come out of tube well. Took rocker assembly off and like off on side of head. Blew air through it well.. Now what? |
If you have flow you know you have oil moving thru the pump. Flow should give some pressure. You need to prove you have pressure along with flow. see if you can stop the oil flow from the stand pipe with your thumb over the stand pipe. less mess if you use a piece of hose. If you have flow and can stop the flow without spraying oil you have an oil pump problem. If it sprays oil from under your thumb I would also remove the gage and see how much flow comes out of the fitting. If the gage is good as you thought it might have had a solid that plugged the end of the gage when you screwed it in. A bug could do it.
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AJ
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Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 7:37pm |
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Ok, put a correct filter on it (fram) and cranked it. No oil pressure on the gauge. Took filter back off, cranked again to see if oil if pumping. Oil does come out of tube well. Took rocker assembly off and like off on side of head. Blew air through it well.. Now what?
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JimD
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 11:32pm |
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Those filters should have all been destroyed! It's why I still can't trust wix filters. What is funny is that a few AGCO filters appeared at the same time with that design. But they disappeared very quickly.
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Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543
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JimD
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 11:31pm |
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Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543
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oldways
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 11:04pm |
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When I bought my b it had low oil pressure and an old filter. I pulled the pan and the filter had come apart and made its way to the pick up screen and completely clogged it up. I'm not sure how it had any oil pressure. Looked like wet shredded newspaper.
Edited by oldways - 07 Jan 2017 at 11:04pm
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1 Corinthians 1:18 1969-190xt-III. 1966 190xt gas. 1966 190xt Cab. 1948-G. 1937-WC unstyled. 1950-B. 1951-CA. 1966-D17-IV
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 5:24pm |
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You need the cotton style filter. Think about what's going on like this. You're standing in the shower and your wife turns the water on in the sink. Notice how the water pressure drops? That's what's going on with that paper filter you have. It allows too much flow so the pressure is reduced to the point you're not getting flow to the rockers. The cotton filter doesn't allow oil flow through it as easily as the paper does. More resistance to flow means more pressure.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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NICKMI
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 11:28am |
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Do not use that filter Fram c159 is what you need !!!
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Dick L
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 10:39am |
desertjoe wrote:
Hey Dick L,,,,since you mentioned the groove on the rocker arm stand next to gas tank,,,it got me to wonderin bout something,,,,, Is there susspossed to be similar situation (groove) on the D14 149 engines,,,?? If I remember right,,mine had studs in head with washers and nuts on the 4 stands,,,but don't remember a groove,,,,???
This engine has never had much oil goin to rocker arms,,but I guess just enough to keep em from siezing,,,???
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Joe, Your rocker arm oil should come in at the center of your head. Just inside the gasket area a tube would connect to the center of the rocker arm assembly. The tube would connect to a hole drilled between the center outside head bolt and the gasket sealing area. No studs involved. As I remember! Look on the spark plug side of your engine and you should see where the oil line enters the head.
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Dick L
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 9:58am |
AJ wrote:
Oil seems to be getting to filter but not to lifters. The gauge is off a running all C engine. It works on that engine. It is an Allis gauge |
(Seems) is really not enough! The only way to know is to (see) it for yourself. No way I can see it for you from here, all I can do is tell you how you can see it.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 9:36am |
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Hey Dick L,,,,since you mentioned the groove on the rocker arm stand next to gas tank,,,it got me to wonderin bout something,,,,, Is there susspossed to be similar situation (groove) on the D14 149 engines,,,?? If I remember right,,mine had studs in head with washers and nuts on the 4 stands,,,but don't remember a groove,,,,???
This engine has never had much oil goin to rocker arms,,but I guess just enough to keep em from siezing,,,???
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AJ
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 9:24am |
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Oil seems to be getting to filter but not to lifters. The gauge is off a running all C engine. It works on that engine. It is an Allis gauge
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Can't fix stupid
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Leon n/c AR.
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 9:23am |
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Sounds like NAPA did not destroy the bad filters from a few years ago and came across them in the warehouse and said what the heck lets see if we can sell them. Leon
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Don(MO)
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 9:09am |
AJ wrote:
Oil filter is a Napa 1101 Gold Series filter. Filter looks like this one inside.
Yes there is a stem in the filter base.
There is a holes at the top of that tube. One at the very top and two smaller ones on the sides just below the tip. |
So the dumb a$$'s at NAPA are back to listing that filter for the older Allis Chalmers tractors, man we had the same trouble with that filter years ago and now it's back! AJ, I'd Take that crappie FILTER BACK and get your money back, it was the trouble with oil pressure on old AC's before and please not again! JUNK JUNK JUNK!!!!!!!!!
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 8:57am |
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Read BOBS post........... you have a JUNK FILTER.... It will not work... PLug the stand tube as Dick said and see if that helps or you have additional problems.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Scott B
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 8:31am |
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Dick L wins my vote for "experienced based tricks of the trade"! Thinking I'm going to fly you in to look over and fix up one of my tractors!
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D17 Series 1
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Allis B- 1945
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Dick L
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 7:57am |
To see if the filter is the cause not having pressure on the gage and still have oil flow would be to plug off the stand pipe. If you don't have fittings to plug the line going to the filter base you can use a hose clamps on a hose over the stand pipe and plug the hose with a bolt and hose clamp. It could be a plugged gage also if oil was let go for years and not changed. Some automotive gages will not show oil pressure on these engines.
Things to think about.
Edited by Dick L - 07 Jan 2017 at 7:58am
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