allis chalmers hd 16 dp buda 844 engine

I am new to this Forum so hello to all . I have a hd16 dp dozer im a farmer ive owned the dozer for a long time  is there any one that has a hd 16 dp or similar ? Mine has the buda 844 engine having a few issues with it just thought more minds are better than one .

The buda 844 engine just came to a stop . I had not used dozer for a few years so started it up and it had a stuck plunger in pump so fixed that also flushed radiator and few other jobs fitted the tree pusher thought i was right to go . Backed through gateway and started to head of across paddock just basically a bit above idle all of sudden it started making a tappet noise looked at oil pressure still ok got of to listen to noise walked around the other side and the engine just seemed to lock up stop . I tried starter motor it would not turn . I was grumpy so i just left it until i finished my harvest  . So now im trying to figure out what it could be i guess the question is with the buda 844 do they have common faults that i should look for before jumping in and pulling apart 

thanks             

Thanks for the reply yes i will try with a little more information just thought it was the right way to start off 

chris

Thanks for reply yes had oil and was correct level , The oil pressure gauge seems to work starts at 0 moved up when engine started to around 40psi but yes could be faulty never thought of that one . I drained oil yesterday its black but still quite oily no water put a inspection camera up the sump plug near front of engine as you cant seem to get it in rear plug hole had a look. Bottom of sump is quite clean inside i can spot the first 4 conrods and mains with camera they look ok not overheated cannot see the last two . I took rocker covers off there is some condensation in the front cover valves and springs look ok . Got a pry bar in the timing mark spot and moved engine backwards then ford i was surprised as when this happened a few months ago the starter would not turn the engine . I have since removed the battery's from dozer hooked up jumpers to the starter and managed to get two full turns out of the engine it stops in three positions each rotation and had to click starter a few time to get past the tight spot remembering that starter was only on jumper leads probably not full power . So im a bit lost on what to do next dont want to start pulling apart if im wasting time for a engine that will be no good

thanks            

No chunks in oil or pan when i looked with camera had a good view of the bottom of sump.When i pulled rocker covers and rotated two turns with starter motor valves seemed to all work springs and push rods seem ok. I have no batterys in dozer so i just jumped the starter straight from a little truck and starter might not have had the power to work properly i spun engine 2 revolutions   the starter would stop 3 times per revolution had two click it a few times to get it moving again like a tight spot or compression stroke. Yes im thinking of pulling of the belly plate then the sump its a big job for me and was trying to make sure im heading the right way if its spun a bearing i probable would give up on the job as it means engine out etc prob not worth the effort 

thanks         

Thanks i think your right i will put a couple battery's back in and see what happens. There is no oil in the engine as i drained it out but i guess a couple of turns with the starter should not hurt to much i will have the stop lever in stop position and see what happens 

good thought 

thanks  

The engine has coolant i left sump plug out to see if any coolant drips out the sump have not looked for a few days . I will get some battery's in it and see what happens if it turns ok for a few turns i will then put the oil back in and turn some more and see if i cant get the oil pressure up? It may not be today plenty to do on farm and weather very hot 

thanks   

Here is a pic of my dozer I put some batterys in today with mixed luck it turned over a bit then had to click on starter a few times to get it past tight spot it seems  then it would turn some more then same again at one stage it turned like normal but only one revolution its hard to hear any noises might have herd a clink sound thats it really im grumpy with it there is a bit of oil or fuel stain under exhaust manifold cylinder 5 and 6 i have not noticed that before had the batterys in and jumper leads as well so plenty of juce cables got hot im lost i guess if you were just to look today you would say flat batterys or bad starter but with what happened earlier the tappet sound and stalling theres somthing not right  i have a story to tell about today but not now i was so lucky 

thanks   

By the sounds of your writing I cannot rule out the starter, or something in it's path. You could have a tooth or two knocked out of the flywheel ring gear or starter drive, the starter motor itself could be subject to needing repair etc. With the engine rolling over and not either locking up, or hitting a hard stop, I'm feeling the bottom end is probably fairly sound. 

I would remove the starter motor and have it a good look over along with any needed repairs. With a helper I would bar that engine around 360 degrees without the starter installed inspecting the ring gear as the engine is rotated. If tight spots are found in the rotation we need to drill down to their cause.

I wouldn't be all that concerned at this point of the leak you noticed. Probably a slightly leaking gasket that seals up when the engine warms. However with the engine cranking over, the injection pump is still pushing fuel into the engine through the injectors, (if working) and this fuel is not being burnt so it remains liquid. It will find the easiest place to leak.

At this writing I'm more concerned about getting the engine to roll around as should. Hopefully you have something rather simple as the root cause and it's not something catastrophic to the tractor. It's difficult to put a lot of $$$ into such an old machine but it if works it will still do a day's work just as good as a much newer one; albeit slower. 

I've seen such stupid crap put engines down over the years and I don't give up so easy. The dumbest one I seen was on a Ford pickup that the engine blew and locked up right after clutch replacement. Engine surely was locked up, but not because of the engine. Somebody didn't torque the flywheel retention fasteners and one backed out lodging between the flywheel ring gear, and the flywheel housing. Nothing wrong with the engine at all. 

Thanks for your reply's and the reseizing of  the picture hope you liked the dozer . I really cant see it the starter motor as was working fine and the noise in the engine just before it came to a halt im unsure . I did joined the forum for help more minds are better im a bit stubborn . I will take the advice and remove the starter and have a look as advised i would be so happy if this was the problem and would feel a little silly but i will give it a go i am still thinking spun rod bearing . I do appreciate the help and thank you both i will report back when i get the starter sorted 

cheers           

Thanks  will investigate some more i hope its good news 

thanks  

Thanks for reply wow you have me now i did not think of the drive in front of engine i maybe able to disconnect it and try again . I am more lost now going back to the start when all this happened the noise was like  a tappet noise quite fast then the engine growled or  grinded to a complete stop it happened just like that like you stall a car or truck trying to start of in top gear.  My first thought was a dropped vale or seat or stuck valve . But can get the engine to do two revolutions not all in one go it gets a tight spot and have to click starter two three time to get it past tight spot then it turns some more .So really cant be a valve or seat as it would come to a complete dead end . With batterys in and jump cable i got it to turn once like it should only one revolution . every one is right in there idea's im sure of that . So do you think the starter would make a ticking noise in the middle of the engine if faulty? And do you think the front pump or coupling would make a ticking noise in the engine ? I am not sure so as another thought a blown head gasket between cylinders? Or what i dread the most spun conrod bearing ? 

If its a spun conrod bearing has any one had a spun conrod bearing and been able to linish crank shaft in the engine good enough to get it going with out having to remove the engine and do a crank grind is this possible ? There is a guy here in au that wrecks these dozers he has another engine its a earlier buda 844 it only has the two valves per cylinder he says it would fit and it was running but he gives no warranty on the engine once your out the gate its yours and the price is 10000 dollars im not sure on that one as well so im a bit lost 

thanks            

I should probably back track a bit on the starter. I would get that front coupling disconnected, get oil back into the engine and see if it will readily crank right up. Most of my limited AC experience is with newer tractors than yours where the hydraulic pumps are engine flywheel driven and not crankshaft driven at the front. I had completely sidelined that important piece in the equation. 

With that hydraulic drive disconnected and if the engine still won't start, the next thing to do is "bar" the engine over. If the engine rotates through 360* but the starter still won't spin it, then something in the starting system is amiss.

Let's get that hydraulic pump separated from the engine before going much further would be my suggestion.

Well a few days gone buy i had a couple free hours so i looked at dozer again . I decided to drop belly plate to get a look at the front drive shaft  blade is chained up to close to front grille . Belly plate was full of dirt etc very heavy once off i discovered at the back of sump there was a big round plate that could be removed .I had a quick look at front drive shaft the joints seem to be ok just visual cant really see how i am going to get to it without removing the grill . So i could not help myself i removed the round plate on sump which leads to the oil pickup screen i could not get my inspection camera in this spot at the start its kind of  enclosed compartment in bottom of sump . removed the mesh from oil pickup there is quite a few metal pieces on the mesh flakes and there soft can bend with fingers hmm thats as far as i got i am hoping now i can get camera up there and look at the bottom of engine .

cheers