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6138 TRUCK ENGINE? |
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8070nc ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Location: North Carolina Points: 597 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 2:58pm |
Ive got 6138TI in a DES 300 AC genset. 300 hours. Sounds like a locomotive. I start it every couple weeks just to hear it run and to warm it up to keep condensation out
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1984 80780
1957 D14 DES 300 with 25000 engine 616 tractor |
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41947 |
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Thing now is the EPA and the emmissions from engines - And if CARB rules of Calif get pushed harder the diesel will be a item of history .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Transaxial ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2014 Location: Tofield,Alberta Points: 96 |
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Hi Mark. We seem to keep missing each other on this forum!
If you get this message and want to catch up sometime give me a call 780 662 2614 I suspect we will have lots to talk about! |
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Oldred ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 May 2010 Location: Bluffton,AB,Can Points: 148 |
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Sorry I missed this thread from a couple years ago. Lol
Transaxle, No I did not buy your 731 engine. I did however come to your farm about 10 years ago and looked at your 8070 that you were selling and then we went and checked out your 8550. I bought a 4W305 way out by Melfort Sask soon after we chatted and been using it on my JD 9501 PT combine and large rental manure spreader. |
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DougG ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8309 |
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Oh wow ! Thanks
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allisguy.11 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Perry, Ny Points: 577 |
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brought close to 10k... broke front crank but complete
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DougG ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8309 |
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Dang I missed that one , Do you know what the purple engine brought ? Also was there anyone to contact on information on it ?
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allisguy.11 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Perry, Ny Points: 577 |
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This winter we lost Jeff Heitman..... he was totally dedicated to the history, research and preservation of these engines. The facebook auction page just sold one of his purple engines and there is a yellow 25000 on there being sold now.
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JohnCO ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
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Transaxial, I see Mark was last on in April of this year, you might send him a pm that goes to his email, incase he doesn't check in for a while longer.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant |
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Transaxial ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2014 Location: Tofield,Alberta Points: 96 |
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Hi Mark. Are you the guy that bought my 731 in about 1990? I did a writeup in an old thread and just wanted to give you a heads up via a quote. |
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Transaxial ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2014 Location: Tofield,Alberta Points: 96 |
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I realize this thread is 5 years old but this subject is 40-50 years old so here goes. First to Oldred. Are you the guy that bought my blown 731 in about 1990? IIRC someone from Rimbey bought it and I see you are very close to there. If so I would like to catch up with you sometime and see what you have been up to for the last 30 years! On the subject of the thread, I replaced the 731 with a small cam NTC 350 into my 8550 because of high parts cost from Agco, much better availability of used engines and parts from Cummins, 9 gal/hr with the Cummins vs 14 with the 731, much better starting engine, much better pulling engine, and on and on. I have been extremely happy with the conversion and still own the tractor and could go to work with it this afternoon if needed. I designed and had a local machine shop build a bell housing to mate the Cummins to the AC 24" bolt circle transmission housing. I pieced together a two plate 14" Cummins dish flywheel and modified a Lipe pressure plate with the release fingers removed and added more springs to hold on the 12" Allis friction plates that had the right spline for the input shaft. I know this is going the wrong way for what the discussion is to install this block in a truck, but it could be machined the other way. A couple of years ago there were some interesting threads on this forum about what happened in the Allis head office that allowed a transmission out of a 150 hp 2 wd to wind up in a 300 hp 4wd. I started a thread "did the bean counters take charge" or something like that, and a very smart and interesting guy from high up in AC responded. 427435 who was a regular contributor, and sadly we lost him a couple of years ago, gave a great response that went something like this. AC is bleeding red, no R and D money, stick the 20 speed PD trans into the 8550 and speed it up to 2800 rpm so the torque will be less than 600 ft lbs, put a fuel limiter in the Bosch style fuel pump to cut the fuel under 2500 rpm, even at WOT. All to get a tractor out on the market which has dried up to 1200 units total across all makes and models in the mid eighties. This was the second last attempt to save a dying company. Except for the 305 which was the last and actually turned out to be a pretty good tractor. My 8550 with the NTC350 was and still is, a really good tractor if you do your heavy pulling in 5th gear low range in the drop box and low range in the PD. Straight through the main transmission. I have long believed that AC had a great engine in the 844 made to pull at 18-2100 rpm. Every bit as big and beefy as Cummins or Cat. It would be cool to see what that 844 could do in a truck.
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jasmesmic ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 22 Dec 2013 Location: India Points: 1 |
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I read all your information its very interesting.
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Oldred ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 May 2010 Location: Bluffton,AB,Can Points: 148 |
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I have seen a couple of the 4W305's with a 855 cummins one at 300hp and the other at 350hp. The swap costs around 20g including a decent 855. If the 6138 was aquired at a reasonable cost there shouldn't be too much else to change to make fit so it could be more cost effective, maybe even keep the twin turbos if the 6120 exhaust manifolds will bolt to the 6138. Mark |
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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Hello Mark, Yes a 6138 back of engine block bolt pattern is the same. My Friend Jack said that they detuned the 6138 to a 6120 because the Transmission wouldn't take the torque/abuse of the 6138 but I would imagine if you are gentle things might stay together. Well you should be able to detune the pump to any specs that you would want with in reason to ease the pain on the transmission.
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Oldred ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 May 2010 Location: Bluffton,AB,Can Points: 148 |
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This means a 6138 would be a fairly easy swap into a 4W305 if the blocks are same ? Is the 25000 series the same block also or different ? Is the lowest horsepower rating around 375 ?
Thanks for any info Mark
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AC7060IL ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3516 |
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Bump. I find your Big Al info interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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Don do you have a Facebook page?
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DonDittmar ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2513 |
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I haven't been able to find it. Can you post a link? |
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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I made a page on Facebook I put a lot of pics up of the BIG AL engine it is labeled ALLIS CHALMERS BIG AL TRUCK ENGINE.
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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I wish
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Buckeye Chalmers ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Ohio Points: 392 |
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Does anyone have a copy of the Reporter that features the purple engine?
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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What do you want for it?
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tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3511 |
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The block we have came out of a 8550- it still has some rods but no crank. |
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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Interested in your Block 6120,6138, 25000?
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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what is your block a 6138 or a 25000, I am interested. Hello Calvin, I wish they were that simple but most gensets had a SAE "0" Bell housing and a Automotive application usually takes a SAE "1" For a Big transmission for the big al. I am also looking for a guy in NY who called me over the summer said he had a 25000 on a air compressor. He wanted 8500.00 for it and Id like to tak to him again
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Calvin Schmidt ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4532 |
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My un-educated guess is that the best source of a SAE bellhousing suitable for a truck application would be from an old genset. I'm sure A-C built a lot more gensets with the 844 engine then they did for trucks.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3511 |
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we have a block if anyone is in need.....
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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Also, rear sealing/Crank surface is critical on these engines so jamming a CUMMINS Bellhousing up would not work on the back of a Allis Chalmers for example..... Hope that helps. Jeff
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cumminskta600 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2012 Location: Buffalo NY Points: 67 |
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Hello, The 6120 Block is the same as the 6138. You would need a SAE 1 Bell housing/flywheel to accept a 14'' or 15/1/2'' clutch
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CAL(KS) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3800 |
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another bump and question
so after reading above post about having parts cast, is there is a special bellhousing/ adapter that is needed to put one of these engines in a truck? im curious as to the feasability of putting a 6120 (4w-305 or 8550) into a truck. no it wouldnt be a purple truck engine but what exactly is required to mate to truck trans. ie flywheel and clutch? I was thinking the bellhousings were standardized to accomodate a common pattern among all engines? or is it standard on the trans side? what would a person need to accomplish this?
Edited by CAL(KS) - 10 Nov 2013 at 7:44pm |
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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