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1950 WD |
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pigpenH
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: United States Points: 29 |
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Topic: 1950 WDPosted: 06 Sep 2016 at 9:31pm |
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Wondering if anyone has any experience with no oil pressure after the tractor sat for 15 years... now I checked the gauge with air and it seems to move fine(not 120 psi of air tho) although I don't have any way of checking to see if the gauge is accurate. I did pull the oil filter off and briefly started it, some oil is coming out the tube but not a ton, then went to the port where it comes off the head and substantially more oil but still doesn't seem right. How much are they supposed to have and where is the gauge supposed to be? The gauge is on the oil filter housing as of now but not sure what is correct and what is not... thanks a ton in advance!
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Orange Tractors
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Butler, MO Points: 172 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 2:37am |
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I wonder if the oil pickup tube is clogged with sludge? Maybe you found the reason it sat for fifteen years? WD engines don't have a ton of pressure or flow, but it is sufficient as long as it is working. I once had the oil pressure gauge vibrate loose and fall off when I was mowing. I noticed it falling, but there wasn't a big stream of oil shooting out. Robert
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 5:52am |
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I think only about 10% of the oil flow goes through the filter on that type of system. If the filter is real dry it may take a few minutes to gain pressure too. If it has the original low pressure pump it will only be about 12 psi. And if your gauge isn't accurate it may not even register.
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corbinstein
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Joined: 31 Jul 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 796 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:03am |
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check to make sure the little pipe that sticks up inside the oil filter hasn't vibrated loose.
It provides the restriction to keep your oil pressure up. Otherwise most of your oil will dump thru the filter.
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Allis dave
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Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 3086 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:10am |
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If it's getting oil to the head, then oil is getting to all the internals also. I would change oil and filter if you haven't done so already. When you start it up, can you unscrew the gauge and see if you get oil out that port? I also think the oil tube that goes up through the center of the filter can get pushed up or down to far, restricting flow. Also might try blowing air through the external line to the filter it may be gummed up too.
Might be like Lonn says. Just taking awhile to soak the filter up with oil |
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Stan IL&TN
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:16am |
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Pull the valve cover and make sure you have oil dripping out of the rocker shaft. If you do then run it until warm and drain the oil then replace with fresh and replace filter. Low oil pressure may be why it was parked but if you have oil up to the rockers then you are safe to run it and do more testing/checking.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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pigpenH
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Location: United States Points: 29 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:43am |
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Orange tractors, I was wondering about similar possibilities, I know the people I bought it from and they claim it was parked where it sat after they were done using it for that day 15 years ago... I actually took the oil pressure gauge off while it was running to see if I had flow at that port and did but not a ton. I'll do some more checking and check back in to either let people know what I found or ask more questions. Haha thanks for the info!
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:46am |
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Thanks for the info Lonn! Great to know that, will be back to either comment what was wrong or ask more questions.
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:49am |
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Corbinstein, I didn't do that directly but think it's tight cause I took the filter off and tried plugging the stand pipe in the filter to get the gauge to move... no luck and didn't notice the stand pipe to be loose then, unless it's barely loose I'd say it's tight but can check it again, that never hurt me. Lol thanks for the info!
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 7:58am |
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Allis dave, good to know, I haven't run it more than about 30 seconds at a time and maybe 4 or 5 times due to the fear of engine damage. Runs like a top tho! Definitely getting oil to the head, and more than at the filter too, I plan on changing oil and filter before I run it any length of time, just wanted to check with some people with more experience before I wreck the engine. I don't have a book yet either but will be ordering one of those too. I did unscrew the gauge while running and oil flow is there, just less than I am used to seeing.there is a tee fitting between the port in the head which the external line connects and the oil filter housing, looks like it dumps oil back into the bottom end thru this fitting, doesn't make exact sense to me, why not run all the oil thru the filter vs what might make it there? Thanks again!
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:02am |
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Stan IL&TN, I'll pull the cover this am and see what I see, I would say by the increased flow at the head that it will be a yes but not hard to pull the cover. Thanks!
I'll see if I can get a pic or two of the old girl. Anyone know of a wide front that one could buy for it?
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Allis dave
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Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 3086 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:08am |
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http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127481&title=wd45-full-flow-oiling-conversion-how-to
Check out this topic and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about your oiling system. This is called a bypass oil system. Like someone stated earlier, it only actually filters a little bit of the oil. Usually what happens on these block if you truly have low oil pressure, is the cam bearing get worn. Oil hits the cam bearings first and if they're too worn, then they lose oil and there's not much left to pass to the main and rod bearings. You may not be having LOTS of oil, but since you're seeing oil up to the head you're at least getting enough to the rest of the motor that I wouldn't worry about running it at low RPM's for a few minutes for testing. |
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:17am |
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Allis dave, is there aNY thing a guy can do to improve the oiling system or was this sufficient? I plan on haying with this tractor so there will be some rpms? Or maybe I'd be better off selling and getting something different? I like the allis's tho...
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:21am |
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Funny, I read alot of this post last night while digging for info Allis dave! Haha great info, but was getting tired and it wasn't soaking into my brain.
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:22am |
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I put a newer pump off a D17 on mine but it requires changing the gear on the pump or switching out the cam for a D17 cam if I remember right. My WD pegs the gauge.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:43am |
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The WD oil system is sufficient. thousands of tractors have ran for almost 70 years with it. Most important is just to make sure you do have some oil pressure on the gauge. I only said run at low rpm's, because if there is a problem, I'd rather be running slow than wide open.
The full flow conversion is a good improvement but not necessary. I did it partly just because I could. You can also shim the relief valve in the side of the block to increase pressure, but this only works if you already have "extra" oil flow that's dumping into the block through the valve. If your cam bearings are worn too much, shimming won't really help. Lonn's suggestion increases oil plump flow by turning the pump faster. It requires switching out with a D17 cam from a full flow block. |
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 8:51am |
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Got it, thanks a bunch. Time to get my hands dirty and figure stuff out! Btw, the gauge is not original and first denomination is 20psi, so that may have something to do with my problem. I will be looking for an original gauge to install. Seems to me that would be a start after the valve cover pull.
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Allis dave
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Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 3086 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 9:15am |
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yeah, they usually only register 10-15 pounds. An original gauge is 0-30. A generic gauge would work too as long as the threads and pressure was the same.
Maybe you don't have any problem. That'd be nice! I would change the gauge first. Several site sponsors here sell good ones for a reasonable price. |
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Dakota Dave
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3974 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 9:44am |
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They only run at about 10 psi at full rpm. At idle you get about half that. Oil pressure that low will barely registrar on a 60 psi guage. Your WD engine is low stress low RPM engine. It'll run at full throttle all day on 10 Psi and be very happy doing it. We ran a WC basicly the same engine, on a saw mill it ran full throttle all day long every day for 20 years always at the bottom of normal on the guage. When the saw mill sold the tractor went with it still running as good as ever. A WD makes a pretty good baler tractor.if you put a seat hinge on it the seat of sets to the left side and makes looking over your right shoulder easier. The seat is offset to the right pretty far. It was great for an allis roto baler sinc the pickup is on the left side but all other balers use a right side pickup.
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 1:15pm |
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I've got a allis gu ru not far from me, he said that he has one so I'm on my way in about 20 min to get it and that will hopefully tell the tale that there is no problem. And yes allis dave, that would be awesome! I did putt around on it a but after I pulled the valve cover and verified oil dripping off rocker assembly, not alot of dripping but I couldn't resist! As long as I'm going after the gauge, I'm gonna grab a battery also. It's not hard to start with the crank UNLESS you flood it, then, simply walk away for a bit! Haha should know by tonight what it's doing, then on to the changes of fluids....
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pigpenH
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Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 9:35pm |
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Well, all is good! Seems to be about 12 psi of oil anything off of an idle with new oil and filter. New temp gauge as long as I was at it. Thanks a bunch for all the help!
On another note, how does one, if possible, put a set of remotes or two if possible out the back?
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Orange Tractors
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Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 12:38am |
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WD's are setup with high pressure low volume hydraulic systems, and the one eternal fitting is meant to be used with one way rams. They are supposed to be able to blow seals on the ~2500 PSI hydraulic cylinders that are most common now. They can be plumbed to work with a two way ram, but it involves a lot of extra piping and hoses, usually the return is ran to the drain plug underneath the tractor. If I was going to set up modern hydraulics on my WD, I would go with an external pump ran off the crankshaft. I have wondered about running one from the belt pulley position, but that would interfere with the loader. On hand cranking a flooded WD, I found that pulling it with a pickup about two feet is enough to get it started. Of course that is no help if you are by yourself. Robert
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pigpenH
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Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 7:50am |
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Thanks orange tractors, I don't have a loader and have a belt pulley that I will never use, but I'm guessing it would be a totally custom housing for a hydraulic pump to be mounted there... may not be worth it... idk. We will see, have a haybine that has hydraulic swing on it is all I need the remote for. Otherwise, the one in the back will raise and lower the haybine now...
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Allis dave
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Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 9:21am |
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You could take off the cylinder and put hand crank screws in there. I can't think what they're called. I have one and use it when hauling a disk or something behind a truck.
you'd crank it out when going into the field, and back in when leaving. Might not be too bad depending on how many fields you had. Granpa's drill was like that his whole life. Crank it down when you got the fireld and drill in a square around the field until done. |
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 9:29am |
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There were vee belt pulleys made to fit in place of the flat belt pulley. It puts the belt pretty close to the frame. I have one that was on the parts WC when I got it. It had been used to run the unloading auger of a batch grain dryer.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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pigpenH
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Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 9:18am |
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I think I've got it figured out how to turn the double acting ram on the haybine to a single acting ram and use it that way, then have a switching valve right behind the seat so I can control height and transport/cut ram in a fairly efficient manor. Thanks guys! Sorry I haven't got pics yet, but if you've seen one, you've seen em all! Haha. Soon tho
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 11:47pm |
Just take one hose off and put a sintered muffler in it's place ![]() |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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pigpenH
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Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 7:27am |
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CTuckerNWIL, basically the same thing as I planned but was going to use a oil/hydraulic filter, whichever fit. Any pros or cons on using either one? Thanks for the tip! Didn't think of them...
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8741 |
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Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 9:58am |
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mounted pickers used a V pulley in place of the flat pulley.Probably set close enough to clear loader but don't know.Uncles had a sliding /shifting mechanism to disengage pulley gear from tractor when not picking(it shut off the blower fan)
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 11:16am |
You don't need a filter, just a vent that will keep dirt from getting sucked in when the cylinder goes down. You could even drill a small hole in a pipe plug but it won't filter much, just keep out any big stuff. Heck, drill a 3/16 hole and fold a pipe cleaner over a couple times to plug the hole
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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