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G cultivator school?

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oldironguy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 8:04pm
 I can't find one anywhere near here so I'm thnking about building a dual toolbar for my Allis G like the one pictured above in the Jun 17 post by Contrary Farmer.  I have a few Planet jr cultivator shanks, shoes and clamps plus a few other odd cultivator pieces so I probably only need to fabricate the frame itself. Can anyone get throuogh the snow and take measurements from their frame for overall length and width?  What is the thickness, width and wall thickness of the steel tubing?  How about a sketch of the attaching arms with dimensions too?  Winter is brutal here in Minnesota and I need an in-the-shop project! 
 
Thanks.
 
Dick
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Italy Hill Produce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2010 at 7:38am
LOL I wouldn't worry about Anthony's character... he is now doing alot with corn, which he doesn't irrigate at all, hence the use of a cultivator without damaging irrigation... I am not sure what else he plans to cultivate..
 
I think his views on high tunnels are similar to your views on farmer's markets. Of course both can be highly profitable. Just different strokes for different folks...
Jonathan
G tractor and an All Crop 66
Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Italy Hill Produce Italy Hill Produce wrote:

LOL he isn't buying a G, He is getting one as a present from his favorite (read:only) son in law. I believe he/his crew has always wanted one.
I wouldn't take the comment about drip irrigation as "because I don't know how to farm" He was probably just poking. I love going to OR and hearing about the "lessons" learned via trying new/different things. He is not a fan of high tunnels, but doesn't mock us for wanting one here in NY etc.
Jonathan
http://www.huntwines.com/Italy-Hill-Produce
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You are a good SIL. I have been using high tunnels for 20 years.  They are very profitable.  Google Groundworks.  They are a farm in Junction City, Or who went from maybe $50k sales the 1st year to several milllion in just 7 years by using high tunnels...they have several acres of them.. Dennison Farms...one of the pioneers for high tunnels in the Valley....just made a huge addition...I've been told he has 20+ acres of high tunnels now.  It is very telling about Anthony's character that he would pooh-pooh my addition of a G, and turn it into a symptom bad farming on my part...the whole while he wants one himself.  lol  There are plenty of them available out here, and a couple of shops putting electric and diesel motors in them...why didn't he just buy one if he wanted one?  It is quite stylish out here to put an electric motor in one and then use solar power to charge it.  I have a 23hp Kubota diesel in mine.

Did what I said about how to size the toolbar make sense?  You need to look at how the ground is layed out and size the toolbar to fit the farm.  It is amazing how many tools the G will push when you are in Granny gear. Like I said, I used to use one that had 8 rows of Planet Jrs, so that is 16 knives pushing through the dirt.  We seeded with an 8 row Planet Jr belly mounted to a Farmall Cub....the Cub had 33gal tanks fender mounted they used to use for adding Diazinon to the seed rows. I used them to put a solution of Humates, fish and kelp into the seed rows. Got great germination and quick growth to the 2nd true leaf stage.

Gotta feed the pigs, I'll check your website late.
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Italy Hill Produce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 9:37am
LOL he isn't buying a G, He is getting one as a present from his favorite (read:only) son in law. I believe he/his crew has always wanted one.
I wouldn't take the comment about drip irrigation as "because I don't know how to farm" He was probably just poking. I love going to OR and hearing about the "lessons" learned via trying new/different things. He is not a fan of high tunnels, but doesn't mock us for wanting one here in NY etc.
Jonathan
http://www.huntwines.com/Italy-Hill-Produce
www.huntwines.com

G tractor and an All Crop 66
Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 10:54am
Originally posted by contrary_farmer contrary_farmer wrote:

Originally posted by Italy Hill Produce Italy Hill Produce wrote:

I'd love to find one (or two) of those dual allis tool bars!
 
The problem with the Allis 60" dual toolbar it's about impossible to find clamps that fit it as well as the shanks the fit the clamps and everything else that fits them.  One suggestion is do what singingpig did and make a 2" square toolbar so off the shelf cultivator parts can be attached.


Nice photos.  I think that my toolbar made of flat stock is an Allis.  I had never seen another one untill someone here posted a great video introducing the G to the world.  I got lucky and found those C-shanks with mounts that fit the toolbar.  That is the problem with cobbling together cultivators is finding the mounts that will mate the tools you found to the toolbar you own  lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 10:51am
Originally posted by Italy Hill Produce Italy Hill Produce wrote:

Singing pig, Anthony Boutard (my F.I.L.) said to say hi! he also said that he doesn't think a planet Jr. setup would work in his fields either.. I'll probably weld up a 2" toolbar  so he can put some S tines on it as well.. He said that would work well for him.
Any suggestions on what the ideal width would be?
Thanks!
Jonathan


I knew it was Anthony when you said Ayer's Creek. I loled at him buying a G...last time I talked to him was in June 2005, I had just bought my G and was telling him about it.  He told me he doesn't cultivate because he doesn't have weeds due to using drip irrigation. Apparrently, my weeds are from using overhead irrigation and broadcasting chicken manure pellets because I don't have a clue how to farm....heeheehee.  As you can see from the pics I have posted, Anthony is right, I don't have a clue.

Ideal width would depend on the width of the beds being cultivated.  The tractor I seed with is set for 5feet tire center to tire center, so my G is set the same.   The 2" square toolbar is a little wider so that I can have a sweep directly behind the front tires.

To use the cults Eldon posted as an example:  He is cultivating sweet corn, don't know the spacing, but he is only cultivating one row at a time.  I would make the cultivator wide to enough to cultivate at least 3, maybe 4 rows and cut my trips up and down the field way down.   I used to use a G on my last farm that had an 8 row Planet Jr...worked like a champ and I weeded 2 beds with every pass.


Edited by singingpig - 17 Dec 2010 at 11:01am
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Bill Long View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 12:28pm
To those of you who want more information concerning cultivators for the G purchase a G implement manual.  It shows all the Allis Chalmers implements for the G, including the cultivators described in this post, plows, #4 mower, and planters.  In fact, I went on e-bay last night and found a CD showing G manual and implement manual.  Twenty Three dollars plus shipping.  If you are that interested I would highly recommend it.  Covers almost anything. 
I did get a post asking for a copy of Pop's price book.  Since it is so old and there are so many pages and it is my most prized posession I will not endanger it by putting it through copy machinery.  In fact, some of the pages have hand written notes by my father.  If there are any specific questions contact me and I will gladly respond.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Italy Hill Produce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 11:31am
Singing pig, Anthony Boutard (my F.I.L.) said to say hi! he also said that he doesn't think a planet Jr. setup would work in his fields either.. I'll probably weld up a 2" toolbar  so he can put some S tines on it as well.. He said that would work well for him.
Any suggestions on what the ideal width would be?
Thanks!
Jonathan
G tractor and an All Crop 66
Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12
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contrary_farmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote contrary_farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Bill Long Bill Long wrote:

You have seen a mixture of cultivators that were made for the G.  The G was probably the most cultivatable (?) tractor made.  Even when it was introduced in 1948 we were shown the basic one row corn cultivator with several types of shovels from the wooden pin trip, the spring trip, and the spring tooth.  The single tool bar to which a myrid of disks and shanks could be attached to set up whatever cultivator or bed maker was wanted.  The double tool bar cultivator frame to which an multitude of shanks and teeth could be attached.  Then came the independ gang cultivators up to six rows of very close cultivation.  Some are shown above.  To this was added the ingunity of the customers or dealers to make cultivator attachments for very specific types of operation.  For example we used a single tool bar with two disks to make up beds with the inverted V to give them a slight crown on the rear furrowing bar.  The purchaser improved on our invention to make it even more efficient.
We used to say to customers show us what you want to cultivate.  We will find or make a clutivator to do an efficient job.
Hope this is some help.  I have Pop's 1960 price book which may be of some help since even though the G was not made at the time special runs of specific cultivators were always available when there was enough demand.
Good Luck!
Bill long
 
What a great post about a lost art... this is the type of information so valuable to anyone who is trying to optimize an Allis G for cultivating.  Now if we could extract all that knowledge... or at least document it somehow!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Herb(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 12:35pm
Bill Longs informative post included the wooden pin trip shank. Similar to the spring loaded trip shank, this shank pivots on one bolt. The other "bolt that secures this shank" is a wooden pin that will shear when the cultivator spade hits a rock, or similar overload. Operator must stop and replace the sheared wooden pin; Dad used oak, but not having any rocks we seldom had to replace this wooden pin. I mention this because I have not noticed any wooden pin shanks on G cultivators, but am sure there are some (especially since Bills post). Herb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote contrary_farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 8:41am
Originally posted by Italy Hill Produce Italy Hill Produce wrote:

I'd love to find one (or two) of those dual allis tool bars!
 
The problem with the Allis 60" dual toolbar it's about impossible to find clamps that fit it as well as the shanks the fit the clamps and everything else that fits them.  One suggestion is do what singingpig did and make a 2" square toolbar so off the shelf cultivator parts can be attached.


Edited by contrary_farmer - 15 Dec 2010 at 1:13pm
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contrary_farmer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote contrary_farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:00am

I have a manual for the 60" Allis dual toolbar and it shows some shanks and sweeps that Allis made as well as a few made by Planet Jr.

I have yet to find anything that listed all the cultivating tools made by Planet Jr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:57am
I'd love to find one (or two) of those dual allis tool bars!
G tractor and an All Crop 66
Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote contrary_farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:55am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote contrary_farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:46am
Posted these earlier this summer.  Dual Allis toolbar w/ Planet Jr. disks and knives.  The disks and knives attach to the 90 degree shanks.  The ducksfoot sweep would need a straight shank (which I am looking for).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:22am
LOL this is an awesome thread! definitely needs more pictures!
I know what you mean about mentioning Organic, My in-laws are Ayres Creek Farm, if you've been a part of any of the ODA humbug about food safety, you've met my F.I.L. he doesn't bite his tongue about ridiculous legislation.
 
I grew up on my family's grape farm and winery, Trust me, grape growers get picked on just as much as organic farmers by the "real farmers." It is funny, some people consider themselves "real farmers" because they use big tractors, tons of pesticides, and can't operate in the black without government subsidies. I went to school, FFA and 2 colleges with people like that, It doesn't bother me that I can make a decent living on only a handful of acres without the help of the federal government and monsanto.
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Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12
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Yeah...I think we are both ready to go home tomorrow, 1000 miles on the rental car, no sign of Orange on the island...oh well, the way things rust over here it probably wouldn't have looked good anyway.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 12:00am
Bored with Hawaii yet Eldon?
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 11:42pm
The spring tooth with point or with separate shares are still available from places like Shoup (www.shoupparts.com) though theirs might be heavier than needed for the G.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eldon (WA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 11:32pm
I cultivate everything with this homemade cultivator....just can't seem to get the factory ones to work right.  I need to get a set made for my Blue G now! The Blue G has better clearance and is like sitting in an easy chair....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:23pm
Please tell us more, Bill.

The independent gang types are like the Planet Jr I posted.  Very versatile and each unit floats up and down indepenently of the others to follow the contours of the ground better. Also, a rock in one row would only raise that unit and the others would be unaffected. 

Mine came with small disks that can be bolted on just in front of the knives  to act as a crop shield.  At the back of the units is another mount where people will put a sweep or a 5-tine cultivator  to really clean the row after the knives undercut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:14pm
You have seen a mixture of cultivators that were made for the G.  The G was probably the most cultivatable (?) tractor made.  Even when it was introduced in 1948 we were shown the basic one row corn cultivator with several types of shovels from the wooden pin trip, the spring trip, and the spring tooth.  The single tool bar to which a myrid of disks and shanks could be attached to set up whatever cultivator or bed maker was wanted.  The double tool bar cultivator frame to which an multitude of shanks and teeth could be attached.  Then came the independ gang cultivators up to six rows of very close cultivation.  Some are shown above.  To this was added the ingunity of the customers or dealers to make cultivator attachments for very specific types of operation.  For example we used a single tool bar with two disks to make up beds with the inverted V to give them a slight crown on the rear furrowing bar.  The purchaser improved on our invention to make it even more efficient.
We used to say to customers show us what you want to cultivate.  We will find or make a clutivator to do an efficient job.
Hope this is some help.  I have Pop's 1960 price book which may be of some help since even though the G was not made at the time special runs of specific cultivators were always available when there was enough demand.
Good Luck!
Bill long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:14pm
I'm organic, always have been. Of course, you don't want to say that here because someone will come in and starting hating on you. lol

I only do restaurants..don't like farmers' markets.

What's you in laws farm name?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:10pm
nevermind.. googled your farm :)
Sounds cool! I bet you know my inlaws too.. Do you do any farmer's markets?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Tracy Martin TN Tracy Martin TN wrote:

Steve, Looks great as always. You put the effort in those veggies. I always like to see your pics.Tracy Martin


Thanks, Tracy.  
Best wishes to you and your family this Chistmas season.


Edited by singingpig - 14 Dec 2010 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:05pm
yeah... I got that after I posted that lol
Are you guys organic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Italy Hill Produce Italy Hill Produce wrote:

They've been at it for 13 or 14 years.
Whats your farm called?


Singing Pig
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Italy Hill Produce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:57pm
They've been at it for 13 or 14 years.
Whats your farm called?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:56pm
Steve, Looks great as always. You put the effort in those veggies. I always like to see your pics.Tracy Martin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote singingpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:53pm
They're doing the same thing I've done for 22 years, now.  I'm in the Willamette Valley, too.  Probably 90 minutes SW of them.
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