G cultivator school?
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Topic: G cultivator school?
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Subject: G cultivator school?
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 1:46pm
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Hey can anyone tell me what the different cultivator shanks are for? IE why they are different?
I currently have one cultivator setup that came with the G (not quite complete) but all 6 shanks have a coil spring on the rear of the cultivator (to compress when you hit a rock) naturally all are rusted solid..
the second set of cultivators i have are from Fred in PA, there are only 4 shanks, but all have coil springs on the back, though these are larger coils, by looks, I would say they might have a lower seat pressure and more travel than set 1) these all appear to be in good shape, ie not rusty.
the third set I have are from Andrew K, in I.N. and they appear to be a bit rusty, but they do not have ANY springs... this leads me to believe that they are for lighter soils? IE they do not appear to trip...
I am attempting to make 2 complete sets that function as they should for my 2 G's
One G is going to be shipped to Oregon where the soil is pretty heavy with clay, but has basically zero rocks, and has nice tilth.. I was thinking the cultivator without springs would go to O.R.
The other G is staying with me, we have pretty rocky/gravely soil here in NY.. So I figured the trip-able shanks would survive better here...
Does the type of sweep matter between these three shank styles? are some earlier and some later?
Any info is much appreciated!
Jonathan
*freezing in NY*
------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Replies:
Posted By: Tony.Or
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 3:39pm
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You better check with your buyer in Oregon!! There are places around here that are almost solid river rock !! A toy light weight cultivator won`t last long.
We have rocks bigger than your head , they hold heat real good and crops grow all night . Ask singing pig about G cultivators in the valley. Tony ------------- http://www.tonystractors.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.tonystractors.com |
Posted By: Andrew Kimbrough
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 5:31pm
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Jonathan, Glad to see you back on and see you got the cultivators safely. Hope all was as you expected and the pick up went smoothly. It worked out well that Doug was headed here for the holidays then back to Rochester.
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Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 6:54pm
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Part # 308219 SPRING, small diam. (Used prior to May 1949) 319760 SPRING, large diam. (Eff. May 1949) 315017 SHANK, pin break 316550 PIN, break (wood) Send me your e-mail address by private massage and I'll e-mail a couple of pictures of the shanks from my parts book. Dusty
------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:41pm
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Hi, Tony. If the fellow in Oregon does have rock free clay, then the ones without the trips should work. Most of the truck farmers out here use the Planet Jr cultivators on the G's. I have a nice 4 row set but can't use them because of the rocks. I have a gravelly loam that is quite rocky in spots. So I built 2 springtooth harrows. One uses off the shelf S-tines with crows feet sweeps, the other uses some C-shanks I found in Tony's driveway with just points on the business end   This is the one with the s=tines. 2inch square tube toolbar. |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:47pm
Here is the Planet Jr, sans the depth guage wheels. Not the difference on the 2 outside units.  closeup of the knives. These are very popular with truck farmers and onion farmers. Do you have a photo of the ones you have? Are they the single row ACs? |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:50pm
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COOL! Where in OR are you? It is going to my inlaw's farm in Gaston OR. They picked about 10 acres, and barely got on dump trailer full... My F.I.L. was so proud with how many rocks he picked up. I was like, yeah at my farm in NY I could have picked that many rocks in 1/4 acre... If you have any G cultivators etc let me know and I'll let my inlaws know (once they have the G) Thanks! Jonathan ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:50pm
My other home built springtooth with the C-shanks I got from Tony. I believe it is a 1 1/2 or 2 inch flat bar. The springtooth cults work great in the rocks |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 7:52pm
Tony and I are both down SE of Salem. I know where Gaston is, NW of us towards the Coast Range. What is he going to cultivate? I'd probably let go of the Planet Jrs as they just won't work in my soil. I've put lot of work into them and they are in great shape. What are you going to cultivate? Beds of veg or single rows? I like the crowfoot sweeps because they dig in very aggressively and they are narrow. My rows are on 12 inch centers. 1st cultivation usually when the seedlings have their 1st true leaves, I gow down the middle between the rows. 2nd cultivation in another 7-10 days I make 2 passes/bed. 1 hugging one side of the bed as close to the row as possible, turn around and hug the other side on the way back, trying to kick a little soil into the rows to cover the spaces between the seedlings but not the seedlings. |
Italy Hill Produce wrote:Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 8:21pm
When all works according to plan, it looks like this: Salad greens...these came out very clean. The short ones in the front are the ones I have harvested recently  Beets...harvest sized with some lambsquarters in the rows, but plenty clean enough. |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:45pm
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lol those look gorgeous! You can tell it's OR by the raspberries... The inlaws farm just about everything, lots of winter greens, garlic, all kinds of root veggies, pop corn, and corn for polenta.. Actually it would be shorter to list the things they don't grow.. They sell to several restaurants in Portland, and at one or two farmer's markets... I would love more info on those cultivator setups... Jonathan ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:49pm
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They are in a part of the willamet (sp?) valley. Very few rocks.. If you are looking to part with the planet Jr setup let me know. Once I get the G out to them, They'll have a better idea of what sort of stuff they'll need..
------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:53pm
| They're doing the same thing I've done for 22 years, now. I'm in the Willamette Valley, too. Probably 90 minutes SW of them. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:56pm
| Steve, Looks great as always. You put the effort in those veggies. I always like to see your pics.Tracy Martin |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 9:57pm
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They've been at it for 13 or 14 years. Whats your farm called? ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:04pm
Singing Pig |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:05pm
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yeah... I got that after I posted that lol Are you guys organic? ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:06pm
Thanks, Tracy. Best wishes to you and your family this Chistmas season. |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:10pm
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nevermind.. googled your farm :) Sounds cool! I bet you know my inlaws too.. Do you do any farmer's markets? ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:14pm
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I'm organic, always have been. Of course, you don't want to say that here because someone will come in and starting hating on you. lol I only do restaurants..don't like farmers' markets. What's you in laws farm name? |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:14pm
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You have seen a mixture of cultivators that were made for the G. The G was probably the most cultivatable (?) tractor made. Even when it was introduced in 1948 we were shown the basic one row corn cultivator with several types of shovels from the wooden pin trip, the spring trip, and the spring tooth. The single tool bar to which a myrid of disks and shanks could be attached to set up whatever cultivator or bed maker was wanted. The double tool bar cultivator frame to which an multitude of shanks and teeth could be attached. Then came the independ gang cultivators up to six rows of very close cultivation. Some are shown above. To this was added the ingunity of the customers or dealers to make cultivator attachments for very specific types of operation. For example we used a single tool bar with two disks to make up beds with the inverted V to give them a slight crown on the rear furrowing bar. The purchaser improved on our invention to make it even more efficient.
We used to say to customers show us what you want to cultivate. We will find or make a clutivator to do an efficient job.
Hope this is some help. I have Pop's 1960 price book which may be of some help since even though the G was not made at the time special runs of specific cultivators were always available when there was enough demand.
Let me know mailto:awol1407@verizon.net - awol1407@verizon.net
Good Luck!
Bill long
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Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 10:23pm
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Please tell us more, Bill. The independent gang types are like the Planet Jr I posted. Very versatile and each unit floats up and down indepenently of the others to follow the contours of the ground better. Also, a rock in one row would only raise that unit and the others would be unaffected. Mine came with small disks that can be bolted on just in front of the knives to act as a crop shield. At the back of the units is another mount where people will put a sweep or a 5-tine cultivator to really clean the row after the knives undercut. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 11:32pm
I cultivate everything with this homemade cultivator....just can't seem to get the factory ones to work right. I need to get a set made for my Blue G now! The Blue G has better clearance and is like sitting in an easy chair....
 ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2010 at 11:42pm
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The spring tooth with point or with separate shares are still available from places like Shoup (www.shoupparts.com) though theirs might be heavier than needed for the G. Gerald J. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 12:00am
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Bored with Hawaii yet Eldon?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 12:03am
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Yeah...I think we are both ready to go home tomorrow, 1000 miles on the rental car, no sign of Orange on the island...oh well, the way things rust over here it probably wouldn't have looked good anyway..... ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:22am
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LOL this is an awesome thread! definitely needs more pictures!
I know what you mean about mentioning Organic, My in-laws are Ayres Creek Farm, if you've been a part of any of the ODA humbug about food safety, you've met my F.I.L. he doesn't bite his tongue about ridiculous legislation.
I grew up on my family's grape farm and winery, Trust me, grape growers get picked on just as much as organic farmers by the "real farmers." It is funny, some people consider themselves "real farmers" because they use big tractors, tons of pesticides, and can't operate in the black without government subsidies. I went to school, FFA and 2 colleges with people like that, It doesn't bother me that I can make a decent living on only a handful of acres without the help of the federal government and monsanto.
jonathan ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: contrary_farmer
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:46am
Posted these earlier this summer. Dual Allis toolbar w/ Planet Jr. disks and knives. The disks and knives attach to the 90 degree shanks. The ducksfoot sweep would need a straight shank (which I am looking for).
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Posted By: contrary_farmer
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:55am
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Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:57am
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I'd love to find one (or two) of those dual allis tool bars! ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: contrary_farmer
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:00am
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I have a manual for the 60" Allis dual toolbar and it shows some shanks and sweeps that Allis made as well as a few made by Planet Jr. I have yet to find anything that listed all the cultivating tools made by Planet Jr.
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Posted By: contrary_farmer
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 8:41am
The problem with the Allis 60" dual toolbar it's about impossible to find clamps that fit it as well as the shanks the fit the clamps and everything else that fits them. One suggestion is do what singingpig did and make a 2" square toolbar so off the shelf cultivator parts can be attached.
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Posted By: Herb(GA)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 12:35pm
| Bill Longs informative post included the wooden pin trip shank. Similar to the spring loaded trip shank, this shank pivots on one bolt. The other "bolt that secures this shank" is a wooden pin that will shear when the cultivator spade hits a rock, or similar overload. Operator must stop and replace the sheared wooden pin; Dad used oak, but not having any rocks we seldom had to replace this wooden pin. I mention this because I have not noticed any wooden pin shanks on G cultivators, but am sure there are some (especially since Bills post). Herb |
Posted By: contrary_farmer
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 1:10pm
What a great post about a lost art... this is the type of information so valuable to anyone who is trying to optimize an Allis G for cultivating. Now if we could extract all that knowledge... or at least document it somehow!
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Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 11:31am
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Singing pig, Anthony Boutard (my F.I.L.) said to say hi! he also said that he doesn't think a planet Jr. setup would work in his fields either.. I'll probably weld up a 2" toolbar so he can put some S tines on it as well.. He said that would work well for him.
Any suggestions on what the ideal width would be?
Thanks! Jonathan ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 12:28pm
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To those of you who want more information concerning cultivators for the G purchase a G implement manual. It shows all the Allis Chalmers implements for the G, including the cultivators described in this post, plows, #4 mower, and planters. In fact, I went on e-bay last night and found a CD showing G manual and implement manual. Twenty Three dollars plus shipping. If you are that interested I would highly recommend it. Covers almost anything.
I did get a post asking for a copy of Pop's price book. Since it is so old and there are so many pages and it is my most prized posession I will not endanger it by putting it through copy machinery. In fact, some of the pages have hand written notes by my father. If there are any specific questions contact me and I will gladly respond.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 10:51am
I knew it was Anthony when you said Ayer's Creek. I loled at him buying a G...last time I talked to him was in June 2005, I had just bought my G and was telling him about it. He told me he doesn't cultivate because he doesn't have weeds due to using drip irrigation. Apparrently, my weeds are from using overhead irrigation and broadcasting chicken manure pellets because I don't have a clue how to farm....heeheehee. As you can see from the pics I have posted, Anthony is right, I don't have a clue. Ideal width would depend on the width of the beds being cultivated. The tractor I seed with is set for 5feet tire center to tire center, so my G is set the same. The 2" square toolbar is a little wider so that I can have a sweep directly behind the front tires. To use the cults Eldon posted as an example: He is cultivating sweet corn, don't know the spacing, but he is only cultivating one row at a time. I would make the cultivator wide to enough to cultivate at least 3, maybe 4 rows and cut my trips up and down the field way down. I used to use a G on my last farm that had an 8 row Planet Jr...worked like a champ and I weeded 2 beds with every pass. |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 10:54am
Nice photos. I think that my toolbar made of flat stock is an Allis. I had never seen another one untill someone here posted a great video introducing the G to the world. I got lucky and found those C-shanks with mounts that fit the toolbar. That is the problem with cobbling together cultivators is finding the mounts that will mate the tools you found to the toolbar you own lol. |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 9:37am
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LOL he isn't buying a G, He is getting one as a present from his favorite (read:only) son in law. I believe he/his crew has always wanted one. I wouldn't take the comment about drip irrigation as "because I don't know how to farm" He was probably just poking. I love going to OR and hearing about the "lessons" learned via trying new/different things. He is not a fan of high tunnels, but doesn't mock us for wanting one here in NY etc. Jonathan http://www.huntwines.com/Italy-Hill-Produce www.huntwines.com ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: singingpig
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 11:39am
You are a good SIL. I have been using high tunnels for 20 years. They are very profitable. Google Groundworks. They are a farm in Junction City, Or who went from maybe $50k sales the 1st year to several milllion in just 7 years by using high tunnels...they have several acres of them.. Dennison Farms...one of the pioneers for high tunnels in the Valley....just made a huge addition...I've been told he has 20+ acres of high tunnels now. It is very telling about Anthony's character that he would pooh-pooh my addition of a G, and turn it into a symptom bad farming on my part...the whole while he wants one himself. lol There are plenty of them available out here, and a couple of shops putting electric and diesel motors in them...why didn't he just buy one if he wanted one? It is quite stylish out here to put an electric motor in one and then use solar power to charge it. I have a 23hp Kubota diesel in mine. Did what I said about how to size the toolbar make sense? You need to look at how the ground is layed out and size the toolbar to fit the farm. It is amazing how many tools the G will push when you are in Granny gear. Like I said, I used to use one that had 8 rows of Planet Jrs, so that is 16 knives pushing through the dirt. We seeded with an 8 row Planet Jr belly mounted to a Farmall Cub....the Cub had 33gal tanks fender mounted they used to use for adding Diazinon to the seed rows. I used them to put a solution of Humates, fish and kelp into the seed rows. Got great germination and quick growth to the 2nd true leaf stage. Gotta feed the pigs, I'll check your website late. |
Posted By: Italy Hill Produce
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2010 at 7:38am
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LOL I wouldn't worry about Anthony's character... he is now doing alot with corn, which he doesn't irrigate at all, hence the use of a cultivator without damaging irrigation... I am not sure what else he plans to cultivate..
I think his views on high tunnels are similar to your views on farmer's markets. Of course both can be highly profitable. Just different strokes for different folks...
Jonathan ------------- G tractor and an All Crop 66 Also Kubota MX5100F and M9540HD12 |
Posted By: oldironguy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 8:04pm
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I can't find one anywhere near here so I'm thnking about building a dual toolbar for my Allis G like the one pictured above in the Jun 17 post by Contrary Farmer. I have a few Planet jr cultivator shanks, shoes and clamps plus a few other odd cultivator pieces so I probably only need to fabricate the frame itself. Can anyone get throuogh the snow and take measurements from their frame for overall length and width? What is the thickness, width and wall thickness of the steel tubing? How about a sketch of the attaching arms with dimensions too? Winter is brutal here in Minnesota and I need an in-the-shop project!
Thanks.
Dick
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