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"Big Al" truck engines

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Matt (Jordan,MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt (Jordan,MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Big Al" truck engines
    Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 1:11pm
 Just passing on some info here. I got my new issue of the "wheels Of Time" magizine and there is a 4 page atricle on "Big al" Allis truck engines. It is a very interesting read. For those of you that are not ATHS ( Antique Truck Historical Society) members and don't get the magizine, You can get it tractor supply.
                         Matt
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Brad MI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 1:14pm
I have a couple brochures on them, pretty interesting what AC accomplished. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 2:19pm
Saved a site that had the pictures and articles on that engine , someone posted a link on old form and i did a save, just not sure where i put it now ..
YOU DON'T THINK YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF LIVING --
YOU LIVE YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF THINKING ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisChalmers37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 2:48pm
Heres the ads about BIG AL.
1937 WC, 1941 WC, 1959 D-14, 1971 AC 310, 1951 AC CA, 1948 Oliver 70, 2001 CUMMINS 4X4, ANOTHER 2001 CUMMINS 4X4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 3:13pm
Any one ever heard of them being refered to as the "purple Bomb"? Story I heard was that they got that nickname from the fact that it was easy to  turn the HP up on em, so a lot of people did, and perhaps went too far, and thus "BOOM". Don't know first hand, just repeating what I heard. Darrel
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427435 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 3:37pm
I'm sour grapes where those engines are concerned.  The engineering and tooling money spent trying to compete with Cummins, Detroit, and Cat was not only an impossible mission but money that should have been spent on farm tractor engines.  Just another example of the foolishness of the top AC people.  Even Deere, who had a lot more resources, had enough sense not to get into the class 8 truck market.  For that matter, neither did International who even built class 8 trucks.  What were they thinking?????????
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 4:04pm
I had an old time driver tell me they were called "Purple People Eaters".
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. Frederic Bastiat
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Bob(FL) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob(FL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 5:48pm

Now this looks like a big waste of money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 7:09pm
On the bottom of the brochure is a listing for the V-12 900 hp. 65000 series with 2037 cu.in. These are pictures I took two weeks ago.took
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kcgrain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 7:24pm
To 427435, allis didnt build that engine for the class 8 truck market, the engine was being built for the HD 21 dozers, large scrapers, gen sets, wheel loaders, pumps , rock crushers etc, the truck market was just another venue for that engine, I have talked to some drivers that drove  these beasts, and they said thats Allis Gaurantee of the legal speed limit in all states was 100% accurate they had power to burn, and would blow any cat , cummins ,or detroit right off the road. To be fair though the "big AL" was 450 hp detroit was building 318V8, cummins had a hard time making 350 hold together and Cat was holding 300...barely. The flaw in the truck market for Allis CHlamers wasnt design, HP or reliability, it was a lack of engine support out in the country. Every little town had a cummins or detroit dealer, cat had service shops all over Allis Chlamers  had few if any. SO if your BIG AL engine needed service or parts you were screwed. Mack had the same problem untill recently west of the Mississippi, few Mack dealers to service the trucks or engines west of the Mississippi, and Mack was known more for voactional trucks, not class 8. Mack with Volvos help has over come that and Allis Chalmers didnt remain in the truck engine market long enough to over come it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(WD45-SATX-TN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 7:25pm
Wonder how much time and money is required to change belts on that V24 hot rod diesel??
1954 WD45 NF "Iron Tater"
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427435 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Kcgrain Kcgrain wrote:

To 427435, allis didnt build that engine for the class 8 truck market, the engine was being built for the HD 21 dozers, large scrapers, gen sets, wheel loaders, pumps , rock crushers etc, the truck market was just another venue for that engine, I have talked to some drivers that drove  these beasts, and they said thats Allis Gaurantee of the legal speed limit in all states was 100% accurate they had power to burn, and would blow any cat , cummins ,or detroit right off the road. To be fair though the "big AL" was 450 hp detroit was building 318V8, cummins had a hard time making 350 hold together and Cat was holding 300...barely. The flaw in the truck market for Allis CHlamers wasnt design, HP or reliability, it was a lack of engine support out in the country. Every little town had a cummins or detroit dealer, cat had service shops all over Allis Chlamers  had few if any. SO if your BIG AL engine needed service or parts you were screwed. Mack had the same problem untill recently west of the Mississippi, few Mack dealers to service the trucks or engines west of the Mississippi, and Mack was known more for voactional trucks, not class 8. Mack with Volvos help has over come that and Allis Chalmers didnt remain in the truck engine market long enough to over come it.


The problem was that there wasn't enough volume in the AC construction or generating business to justify the engineering and tooling costs-----------so the engine division got management to believe that their sales to the class 8 truck market would pay back those costs.  Of course, that never happened and the engineering work and tooling $ that would have kept the tractor/combine engines competitive never happened.  Yeah, I know sour grapes, but hindsight is always 20-20.
Mark
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allisguy2010 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisguy2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 8:25pm
Those engines are monsters even by todays standards! We have those in our snow blowers at work and they are running circles around the new and old cummins engines of higher hp! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 8:36pm
Calvin, I bet a guy could run a lot of Christmas Lights with that Gen set Unit and probably be able to watch TV at the same time. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeO(CMO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 8:52pm
I believe it will handle the RV load OK.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 8:59pm
I think it would run most of the town with 550 kw
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bertman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:16pm
Purple people eaters wer known for breaking the fronts off the crank. If I remember correctly? Maybe I should see if I got pics (slides) that I can put on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unit3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:27pm
I would like to find an old semi with the Big Al engine. I would be fun to drive it to Hutchinson. 
 
Calvin Schmidt, Thank you! Thank you!  THANK YOU!!! FOR POSTING PICTURES OF THAT MONSTER V12!!! I have never ever seen any pictures of one until tonight. Would she fit in a 4W305? Hmmm 4 turbos and 4 exhaust pipes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denwic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 11:00pm
Wonder how much oil leaked out of that 12V-71 while it was on the dyno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denwic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 11:01pm
Sorry, I mean 24V-71
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firebrick43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 10:51am
Originally posted by allisguy2010 allisguy2010 wrote:

Those engines are monsters even by todays standards! We have those in our snow blowers at work and they are running circles around the new and old cummins engines of higher hp! 


Not really, that 900hp V12 is a little thing.  The engines our plant produces, are smallest V-8 puts out that much.  Our largest ~8000 hp, and you get around ship engines and our 8000 hp ones look tiny.  Size is all in relation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipwelte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 11:13am
I remember the Purple People Eaters,  hills didnt bother them,  nothin else could keep up.  What Bertman says about the cranks breaking off is what Ive heard too.  It was a design thing, the fillet on the front of the crank wasnt in compression, the front pulley had a tendancy to fall off.   What was said about not being able to get the engine repaired on the road was true,  thats one reason why it didnt suceed.   We had a 16v-101 here at one time on a gen set skid.  The boss wanted it running to show to a potential customer, we had it hooked up to a 55 gal drum of diesel fuel with a 1/2 hose, we didnt wind it up as there was no load on the generator, lot of noise and smoke!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac_bowsers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 7:32pm
A guy I got to become friends with this past summer used to ride with his dad over the road. His dad had one of the original purple and white show trucks a KW conventional. It ended up at Chicago KW, Kenny said that thing would pull anything, I mean ANYTHING, it had way more power and torque then what it was rated at. His dad had to put several clutches in as it would literally pull them apart, and yes they did have one time with the crank shaft breaking the nose off once, he thought when it was repaired they had come up with a better front damper to keep it from happening. I saw him last week, he is still looking for pictures of it, they know where the truck is, it has been repainted black and orange and has been repowerd with cummins, but he also knows wherre the engine is all still together. Remember this was back in the day when truck engines all had be played with, Kenny said his dad would out pull any engine on any grade with any load with that truck. Ahh the good old days, when if it don't smoke, then its broke, now if theres smoke then its broke!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larry(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:15pm
DETROIT.. how can you put that much fuel and air into something a get nothing in return other than noise!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Bob(FL) Bob(FL) wrote:

Now this looks like a big waste of money.

I don't know about a waste of money, but i do believe whisker dude has been on diesel fumes for too long! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 12:57pm
My family had a Allis dealership in the day. Grandpa told me they called them purple demons. He said one truck drive claimed he could pass empty rigs pullin a grade fully loaded and blow them away. He also said pete, mack, and KW quite using them because the driveline wouldnt hold up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisguy2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 1:16pm
AC bowsers - that would be a nice item to get and put it back together to take it to the shows!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac_bowsers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 3:30pm
After getting some more info to my friend, he wishes they still had that truck, allisguy2010. At least they know where it is, and maybe someday can get it back. Can't believe AC let them end up at a KW dealership back in the day to be sold, thought they would have used them around West Allis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big al Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 10:16pm
i just picked up the wheels of time magazine,for the big al piece.i have all the service bullitens from harvey on the truck engines.they did change the crank a couple of times to correct the crank breakage issue.ac eventually went to a 6 counterweight crank from 12 to lighten the recipricating mass of the crank. also they wanted to keep the nose of crank in compression. the 6138 has all the updates.ihave a 6138ti that came out of a fire truck.i am planning to put in a 72 pete for the aths show in the end of may(south bend,indiana).ac had special chrome/purple emblems that went on the side of the hood .ihave these emblems and a vest that has "big al" logo for promotion.any questions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve M C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 11:08pm
You did well big al.Glad there is at least one left.May have to come to South Bend.
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