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New Guy debating |
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thendrix
Orange Level Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 4740 |
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Hey brewvet, welcome to the forum. I'm in Ball Ground and I have a CA I'll sell if you're interested. PM me if you're interested
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50628 |
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My experience with the IH Cub, is that it don't have enough power to pull a sick offn a piss pot... Had one that someone wanted to sell, up here one summer. It was a late model yellow one, wif a 60" 3 blade deck under it. Didn't have enough power to run that deck, downhill, in low gear, without overheating, for 1000 feet of 4"grass. Even the lowlyist AC B would run a 5' 3 blade mower, LOL!
Edited by DiyDave - 23 Feb 2018 at 8:30pm |
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newman7800
Bronze Level Joined: 23 Feb 2018 Location: JACKSON, MI Points: 1 |
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I have owned a 1985 AC 5020 for 17 years and it has been an excellent tractor.
I now have it listed for sale on craigslist in jackson, mi. 1300 hours and excellent condition.
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kenbob
Silver Level Joined: 24 Sep 2017 Location: Smithville Mo Points: 162 |
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If you intend to do any tractor rides, the CA gives you more options. Most rides i have been on like to go 10mph or better. That leaves only the CA. Some clubs have rides for slower tractors. You have to look at the overall size of the tractor in relation to power. The AC are small and handy. The CA comes in as just a little bigger than a/b Farmall but have almost as much power as the H if I read test info right. B and C are good tractors but with one less gear and the CA has spin out rims which are good if you are doing a lot of different things with the tractor. For me it was the value of the CA in relationship to the other tractors that caused me to buy it for my one time project. I have mine for sale but it is a good distance from you. There was another listed and is still in the ads but he pulled it to fix the rim. It is pretty close to you compared to mine.
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kenbob
Silver Level Joined: 24 Sep 2017 Location: Smithville Mo Points: 162 |
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a gotcha: Some Ca's have live power, which is handy if you are using pto alot. It also has a clutch that can give you trouble. Probably will work good until you try to plow and then it will slip. In my case, it seems the clutch was slick from oil that leaked out the transmission (it was overfilled at some point). Supposedly you have to take the right axle off to fix those. I sprayed through the little inspection hole with brake cleaner to try and degrease the clutch. It isn't supposed to work, but I went out and plowed in the same patch as I did last year, 30year fescue over hard clay, and it didn't slip at all. That is probably one of the biggest things to watch on buying a CA. Not sure if applying the left brake will cause the clutch to slip. If it does, you probably have a problem bigger than what can be fixed with brake cleaner.
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18727 |
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WELCOME to the best forum on the internet.
Don't be in a hurry!!! I used a C for cutting grass and all the while looking for a CA. So now the C is going to get some deserved time off and a rebuild of the left rear bearings. DON'T BE IN A HURRY, take your time looking and check it over good when you decide to drop the axe. I would NOT buy off of epay, most of em are over priced anyway. Check around you, there's lots of Allis guys near you. |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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LeonR2013
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Back in the day I did a lot of hard work with a C. It was a tough little booger. Plowed with 2/12". Pulled a 6' Kelly Ryan that would go to the boxing. Two row cultivator, did beautiful work. Two row mounted planter (had to weight the front). Did about 200 acres of crop, so it got a good work out.
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Pat the Plumber CIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Springfield,Il Points: 4684 |
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Cub does not have a water pump . B , C or CA are far superior machines
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You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails
1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
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kenbob
Silver Level Joined: 24 Sep 2017 Location: Smithville Mo Points: 162 |
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Re-read my own post. To be clear, the clutch slipping I refer to all has to do with the pto clutch...NOT the regular clutch between the engine/tranny. If you are not familiar with the tractor I may have confused you. Sorry
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Ranse
Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 773 |
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If you are buying a tractor to use, then I suggest a more modern tractor. I have a B and I like the little tractor. That being said, there is not a lot I can do with it. Original equipment is hard to find, so I'm limited to pull type equipment. No live power and hydraulics is also disadvantage. A 3pt conversion I'm sure would solve some of those problems, but it won't be as user friendly as a later model.
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thendrix
Orange Level Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 4740 |
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Ranse has a good point. I know the pto on my CA is a good bit higher then on similar sized modern tractors. Seems it would make it kinda hard to run mounted pto driven implements.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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brewvet
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Location: Blue Ridge, GA Points: 20 |
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Thanks for all the replies and advice, lots of good information here. Great to be part of a responsive community such as this. I have now ruled out the cub, and made an offer on a b model. But I have also had some people contact me regarding a Farmall a model. Seems similar to the b, but if anyone is familiar with these would live to hear it.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21562 |
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Knowledge is power ! So if you can, take your time, do your homework...
I'm kinda amazed no one has said to consider a Ford 8N. It has similar power to a 'B', has a 4 speed tranny and 3pt hitch. I had both it and a 'CA' and like them equally. Similar in being small, compact, tight turning, easy to work on. Not having the muffler 'stuck in my face' was nice. Now there's gotta be a couple of them near you.TONS of parts are easily available. Don't consider a 9N or 2N though. They're only 3 speeds and the left brake is on the left side next to clutch pedal ! Dang silly if you ask me( yeah, I had a 2N as well..) NOT trying to start a 'tractor war', just pointing out a possible 3rd contender. Jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Ranse
Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 773 |
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I don't mean to discourage you. If you are as fond of the B as we are, then you will be willing to put up with its short comings. Other old tractors have some of the same short comings. I believe the even the 8N doesn't have live power. Jaybmiller does make a good point about the muffler. I've broke off a lot of mufflers in my time mowing under low tree limbs. The Farmalls from the Cub to the 140 are designed for cultivating. In my opinion that's about all they are good for. But again, they can be use for other chores and you can work around their short comings as well.
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thendrix
Orange Level Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 4740 |
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If you're looking to grow a garden then an 8n would do great. If you want to do more then work a garden then I would steer clear of an 8n because of how lite they are and due to the terrain you're probably dealing with. As far as I know there's very little flat ground in blue ridge. If I were looking for something like an 8n I would go for a Ferguson TO20, TO30, etc. Looks just like an 8n but is a better tractor
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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drobCA
Orange Level Joined: 20 Jun 2017 Location: Perris, CA Points: 292 |
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Ranse is correct, 8N does not have live PTO, which means only a foot clutch and when you step on it even slightly, the hydraulics shut down which I am discovering to be quite inconvenient.
The reputation on the 8N is: "Yes, replacement parts are available & cheap... and it's a good thing they are, 'cuz you'll need them." I predict you will enjoy a B or be delighted with a CA. and not regret either choice.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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brewvet
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Location: Blue Ridge, GA Points: 20 |
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I have seen a lot of the Ford's for sale around, but honestly the looks don't thrill me. I want a tractor for more then just gardening and just like the looks of the older tractors such as the ACs, or Farmalls. Nothing against Ford's I have an F150 which I love.
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mdm1
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Onalaska, WI Points: 2599 |
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I think all tractors have goods and bads. Take all the info you get, digest it, apply it to your situation and buy something you like! Heck if you don't like it buy a different one and one and it all starts!
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21562 |
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GREAT another Ford lover !! mine's a '97, 75K on it, reg cab,sht box,XLT.
as mdm says, look around, compare,see what the 'locals' use, ask why. be sure to test drive it before you buy to see if BOTH brakes work, 3pt goes up and down, PTO spins,engine OK, etc. Jay |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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kenbob
Silver Level Joined: 24 Sep 2017 Location: Smithville Mo Points: 162 |
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Not to muddy the waters, but if money were no object, it would seem a 55 or 550 Oliver would have everything you need, but you can buy 2 fords and maybe 3 ca's for what they seem to bring.
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cdon_FL
Silver Level Joined: 15 Aug 2016 Location: NE Florida Points: 116 |
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Farmall A is a fine small tractor. parts plentiful both new and used. I looked very closely at a Farmall A just before I bought my current AC CA.SUPER A, if memory serves, has hydraulics. Regular A does not.
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Chris in NE Florida
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I wasn't going to mention it, since the general consensus is usually "anti-8N" around here, but since Jay brought it up...I'd recommend it over a B any day!
When I got my 8N, it was "just an old tractor". I was 15 at the time, and had already had my B for 4 years. I never could do much with it, except plow with my Oliver 2-12 and mow with the belly sickle mower. I didn't figure the 8N would be able to do much either. Boy, was I wrong! I got it running after sitting for 30 years, put a clutch in it, and hooked it to a finish mower. I was a little nervous, thinking, "Is a 66 year old tractor going to actually run this machine and mow the yard??" I made a pass around, and was grinning ear to ear. I couldn't believe I finally had an old tractor that would do the work of a new tractor! Since then, I've continued to use the 8N for everything around the place. We have a newer Deere 4720, and I never use that thing if I can keep from it. Only time I use it now is for occasional loader work. The 8N does everything that 4720 did before, with no sweat. 6' mower in 4' grass/brush? No problem. 7' angle blade? Drag a ton of dirt around with that heavy beast, and go back for more. Like was stated, the B is a swell tractor, but you can't do much with it, in terms of modern equipment, unless you convert to 3pt. The 8N was made to work with a 3pt, and while you can convert a B, the ends of the arms will be positioned very far back (more so than a factory 3pt tractor). You are also not likely to have a sway lock system with a conversion kit. This means every time you've got the 3pt mower or disc or anything else heavy attached, when you round a corner doing anything faster than a creep, the implement swings hard to one side or the other, jarring the tractor, and can bend or break some stuff (don't ask how I know) The 8N has a remarkably superior system for locking the implement...easy to use, and I love it. (although some fail to recognize it) The 8N also has draft control, which carries out the same operation as "traction booster" on a CA/WD/WD45. You can adjust the sensitivity so when you're plowing and hit a tough spot, the plow will bump up just a hair, and allow you to keep going without spinning tires. Can't get that with a B, and there's been a lot of times I wish mine had that feature, which is why if I'm plowing anything bigger than my garden, I'll use the 8N. Some will say "Yeah, but you're only plowing 3" deep with the 8N when you're using draft control"...this again is not true. I've plowed our clay soil a good 12" deep before using a Ferguson 2-14 plow, with no added weight. Position control is obtained at the flip of a lever, and will now hold your equipment at whatever height you want. This is basically for anything other than a plow. The B basically has this, and only this. The comment about the 8N being only good for garden work made me laugh...I've used mine for everything around here, except garden work. I leave that to the Allis G.... The lift system of an 8N really is something to be desired. You can't rival it with a B/C. CA is getting closer I guess. With the 8N transmission, you get the speeds of the B, plus a road gear. Not just a harrowing/rotary hoeing gear. This would be very handy on tractor rides/parades. To make my 8N keep pace with the B on the road, I have to run it at low idle in road gear. Running wide open, the 8N cruises about the same speed as a Farmall M) I used to use my B in parades, but have been using my 8N lately because it goes slower when throttled all the way down. With the B, I was having to clutch too much, and I don't like excessive throw out bearing wear. If you get real ambitious, Sherman aux trannys are available for the Fords. A step down, step up, and combo unit are all available. The 8N really isn't that light on the front....I don't know where everyone gets that opinion at...maybe they're trying to use it like it's a D17, I don't know... the B on the other hand is light on the front (not too bad most of the time) but get a 3pt, and you really would need the tires filled, side engine weights, and perhaps the wishbone front axle weight (if the B you get is equipped with the wishbone style front axle). To me, the 8N steers easier, the mechanical expanding drum brakes will stop you on a dime, anytime (not to mention you can do a start-to-finish brake R&R in an afternoon, with no dastardly pins to pull/break off/curse at, etc.) And yes, parts are everywhere. I like that. Granted most of the TSC stuff isn't top quality, but it will get you by in a pinch (never had to make a parts run, though). I "restored" (wasn't a full-on restoration) my 8N in 2013/4, and I've never had to do much work to it since. I adjusted the brake shoes this summer, and that's about it. Go over it with a fine tooth comb and fix anything suspicious before it breaks, and you'll have a heck of a reliable work tractor. Most of the "You'll need all those parts" comes from tractors that have sat for years or have had poor preventive maintenance in the past, so yes, those machines will need those parts. But for the most part, take care of the 8N and it will take care of you. Yes, freak things can happen, but that's true of any tractor. As to the N's not having live hydraulics or PTO...the B doesn't have them either. They're not necessary, even for things like combining. You just learn how to adjust your driving to accommodate for things like a slug running through the machine (be it a combine or baler. Speaking of baler...ever seen a B pull a baler, power a thrower, and pull the bale wagon behind it? I haven't.) As far as no live hydraulics, the 8N has a very fast system. Here's what I've noticed....if I have an implement on the ground, foot on the clutch, transmission in gear, and lift lever raised....just as soon as I ease off the clutch and the tractor has moved about 3", the lift has raised the implement about 6". So really, it's not that bad. I know everything I've typed will probably either not be read, or dismissed as "fake news", but I'll stand by my 8N any day. It's a true work horse for small jobs around the farm, and to me, a B just can't quite compare. (I do love my B though!) So, if you want a tractor to get work done with, I recommend the 8N. Incredibly more versatile, at least for what I do. If you want the garden tractor/parade tractor, I recommend the B. Although I don't think it would work on tractor rides, due to it's lack of a fast road gear. Geez, my reputation around here probably just went down the drain, thanks to what I've said about a *gasp*..."ferd", but I stand by every word.
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chaskaduo
Orange Level Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5203 |
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Get a Rope !!!!
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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FloydKS
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: S E Kansas Points: 7919 |
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In-laws of my sibling had Ferd and they never complained...
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Holding a grudge is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die
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drobCA
Orange Level Joined: 20 Jun 2017 Location: Perris, CA Points: 292 |
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Creston input is highly valued on any subject here, especially Gleaners (which I don't have) and 8N's which I am just getting into.
I am hopefully in the final stages of overcoming disuse and poor maintenance from prior owners problems (as mentioned) and am very encouraged by your praise of the lift system, which is my main issue now. I will be replacing the pressure relief valve which arrived recently and research says that is likely to fix the delayed and sluggish response. a cleanup & fresh fluid improved it from non-functional to at least operational.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Thanks for the kind words, drobCA.
Yes, a relief valve will probably fix your issue. I'm not sure what size wrench is needed, but it will have to be a stub wrench, due to working inside the tractor. Also have to drain the fluid I think. On my 8N, sometimes the lift would freeze up/delay, as in, if you pushed the lift lever down, the load would stay up. I'd have to move the handle up and down a few times, and then it would drop. New relief valve will fix that. Once you get it operating, it should hold a 2-bottom off the ground overnight. If you hook onto something heavy (disc or brushhog), lift it, then kill the engine and hear a rhythmic "click" noise (It may be fast, or really slow "click") the lift piston is worn and needs replaced. That's an afternoon job, is pretty easy, and fairly cheap. But...unless it just bugs the heck out of you, you could probably leave it alone. The lift has ample volume to compensate for some major leaks, without hampering field performance. As far as cleaning, I filled mine with diesel and ran the lift up and down a few times. That got some sludge out of the internals of the system, but it's a good idea to clean around the pump by hand, especially the intake area. Just take the right side round cover off (the dipstick goes through it) and clean the area out by hand as best you can, if there's 60 years of sludge like mine had. A lift in good condition that is properly adjusted can do some wondrous things. In this photo there is no weight added to the tractor. The hitching point is about 4.5 feet from the ends of the lift arms, yet it lifts this 720 lb Allis disc with ease. I'll admit, that did make it light on the front, but I think filling the tires would have helped that quite a bit. Edited by CrestonM - 24 Feb 2018 at 1:57pm |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5642 |
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Hee hee... As my buddy to the south sais: The N-series Ford on his farm never breaks... because it' aint' strong enough to do any REAL work...
I'll agree that the Ferguson TO is the way to go if the Ford N format is your choice. Comparing a Farmall Cub to an Allis B? No contest- totally different animals. The Allis B has a hundred-plus CI overhead valve engine with forced liquid cooling. The Cub has a 60ci flathead with 'thermosyphon' cooling... The closest red tractor to the B/C/CA is the Farmall A/SuperA. series. But here's the honest-to-God truth: Don't debate yourself- you'll waste precious hours of your life, and in the end, you'll always wish you hadn't. Just go buy one of everything, work on 'em all, love them for what they are, and accept them for what they're not. We all have rotten tires to contend with during our lifetime, don't let it worry you. The having antique tractors in your life, is power to your soul. It fortifies your Chi, and makes you a better, more complete, more interesting person... and you don't even have to drink Dos Eques! (but you can [or bottle] if you want) |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Well said! Lol
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cdon_FL
Silver Level Joined: 15 Aug 2016 Location: NE Florida Points: 116 |
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Well said, Kreston and Dave M.
I bought my CA mainly because I wanted to run a belly mower. And I wanted a tractor more clearly old, and with a little more "old school cool" than the 1966 David Brown diesel that I already had. My CA has a three point conversion kit on the back of it, but has never been satisfactory to me because it is a make-do. Functional but not comfortable. No sway control is my biggest gripe. BUT For most any kind of hobby farm, or real farm, or land maintenance WORK (vs parades or belly mowing) a standard / universal three point lift is essential, IMO. 8N has that and it was built in from the beginning. Fergueson designed it, Henry Ford stole it, they fought about it in court, and the ensuing "agreement" they came to allowed Ford to make it universal and standard around the world. The pages your are reading are an allis forum. And we have lots of fun sharing information to keep the old tractors going. There is some pride of color here. I like having a brand specific formum, but none of us really drank any kool aid when we signed up. We really do like all the old tractors. And we are all sad they there are not more of them around, being restored, paraded, or worked. Of any brand or model. My belly mower equiped CA is what I had hoped it would be. My father in law has a B with a belly mower (a tractor I bought from Hubnut and gave to him) so I am not anti Allis. But.... If I was going to have only 1 tractor, it would not be an old Allis, even an Allis with a 3 point conversion. My one tractor (for getting work done) would probably be a diesel, but it would for sure be one that had standard 3 point hitch and standard rotation 550 PTO. My david brown 770A fits that bill (but parts now are hard to find). Massey 135 or TO 30 etc would fit. The Fordson Dexta (that I grew up on and was passed from my grandfather to my father and that I am still waiting to receive and restore) would fit. And an 8N would fit. Many others, too. Bottom line....Come on in, the water's fine. None of the old ones will break your bank. And getting one certainly will not prevent you from getting a replacement or even additional tractors down the road if the first one you buy doesn't turn out to touch all your bases. |
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Chris in NE Florida
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brewvet
Bronze Level Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Location: Blue Ridge, GA Points: 20 |
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Well I jumped in with both feet, offer accepted on the Allis B. I have a video of it starting up, real pretty tractor and runs great. Is it possible to post a video here?
Super excited |
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