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Worn Final Drive shaft (sprocket shaft) housing

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rhead View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Location: ann arbor mi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Worn Final Drive shaft (sprocket shaft) housing
    Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 6:27pm
I have a HD 6B sn 17689 that had loose sprocket nuts...wobbly sprockets.  One side... the left side the intermediate bearing housing was fine with no wear.  The Right side intermediate bearing housing has wear where the bearing race had spun.  The true original size of the opening is 5.75".  The worse wear is 5.766.  As shown in the picture the wear is inboard approximately 1/4" leaving 1/4" of non-worn area intact.  

I have two possible scenarios that I have contemplated to fix.  The first would be to hire a line bore person to bore out the housing to 5.875" and purchase a oversize race which is available for the Timken 665 bearing which is what is on the shaft.  It is a Timken 652A.  Simple phone call but expensive...initial phone estimate $1500.
The second scenario would be to install a 3/16" steel shim behind the intermediate roller bearing bringing the bearing/race out 3/16" and into the non worn area and using Loctite 780 bearing race retainer.  
I would love to be able to do the line boring myself and was wondering if any of you have done this and how you did it.
Any one with experience using loctite 780 in this scenario?
All suggestions would be very appreciated.  

So far this "winter" project started with a replacement wet clutch. All went as planned.  Next steering clutches/brakes.  Clutches were good with just needing another steel plate.  Brake bands bad and bought new ones from Tractorparts.com.  Hub flanges need replacement....found servicable ones.  Throw out bearing good just needed cleaning and new grease lines.  Been a fun project keeping within a reasonable budget until finding the race wear.  
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rhead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 6:33pm
final drive housing
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rhead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 6:36pm
The picture got rotated 90 degrees....sorry.  Don't know how to fix that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 5:18am
You might want to try the farmer's solution, here.  Take a center pinch, and dimple the worn surface.  The punch erupts metal upward, as it expands sideways.  That and some Green locktite(gear lock) may hold your race in, without the $ involved in line boring, and sizing the race up...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 5:44pm
That's kind of a load of cash but it'll be done right. You'll probably never have to touch it again.
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rhead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 6:14pm
Agree about the cash....
Decided to line bore it.....  will update the progress.  Will post pictures of the setup. Between my brother, machinist neighbor and myself we will get it done.  All parts ordered and will rent a Mag Drill to turn the boring rod.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ages Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 6:24pm
Line boring and installing an oversize bearing race is the correct way to fix it. Some  say they do not have time to do it right, but they have time to do it over.
Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG, HD6B dozer, HD6E dozer I-400, 615, ACP25, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 wheel loader, #84 AC plow, Simplicity tractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 3:12pm
Hmm - a lot of 9513 transmission cases had wear problems on bearings and a product called BELZONA was used to reset the bearings into worn cases - guys I worked with would guarintee the completed repairs for 50,000 miles . 
 If there was a good metal area to make sure bearing was centered in right area then that product would work . 
 On my HD4 machines the outboard bearing for rear axle would spin race in case bore if seal leaked or to much force was applied to sprocket and axle - I had both rear cases re-machined and a steel insert put in to replace cast iron original part of case - cost me $500 a side to have part made / case machined / welded into place . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 3:14pm
Oh- that rear case is the same as HD5 case also so if there is another case that isn't worn is another solution that might be cheaper but little more labor . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kblackav8or Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 3:59am
So do I read this right your HD-6B has wet clutches?  Mine is a higher serial number and has dry clutches.  Mine also seems like sort of mutt sort of HD-6B-AG  Has the ag nose and ag turbo engine and 5 roller track frames etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ages Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 2:35pm
After serial number 14,484, the HD6E's had wet clutches and power steering both in power shift and in direct drive tractors. Our HD6B with dozer has an oil clutch with dry steering clutches. The AG is basically a B with a long undercarriage (37 links) and a 7000 turbo engine. Our 6AG has a wet engine clutch as well. Our two HD-6E's are above and below serial 14,484 so one has dry clutches and the other is wet. (Power steering and brakes, wet clutch, and pressure lubricated transmission). I do not believe the B tractors used any oil in the clutch compartments or for steering and brakes.
Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG, HD6B dozer, HD6E dozer I-400, 615, ACP25, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 wheel loader, #84 AC plow, Simplicity tractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:50pm
I have never used loctite 780? I have used loctite 680 and it is advertised to fill a .015 gap.
If you have any area to center the race to the original bore, it will hold, been there done that.
 The center punch idea to give it an area to locate in, might help if you use the 680 gap filling loctite.
Loctite 680, Very High Strength Fast Cure Retaining Compound is a high strength, high viscosity room temperature curing adhesive used to join fitted cylindrical parts. It fixtures in 10 minutes and provides a shear strength of 4,000 psi. Capable of filling diametral gaps up to 0.015 in.
 Given all mentioned, Boring and sleeving , or bore to an oversize race might still be the best long term fix.If you could toss the whole case up on a boring mill, sweep the face in and sweep what is left of the original bore, it would be lined up. No "line boring" needed.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 2:18am
oil master clutch and 5 roller track frame was available as a factory fitted option; along with 4F 2R transmission on all HD6B after 14474. 
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

oil master clutch and 5 roller track frame was available as a factory fitted option; along with 4F 2R transmission on all HD6B after 14474. 

I have 2 HD5's that have the 4F and 2R transmission so would of figured all the HD6's would  had that option as well. The HD 5g with the tractomotive loader has a longer track frame as well. I don't know if there was any other way to get that,but think all the g models were that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 7:59pm
HD5G has 5 rollers 37 link - HD5B - was 2 links shorter and 4 rollers . HD5F added 2 more links and another roller is what i heard but it might be a 5B with 5 G track frame as never seen a 5F

Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2019 at 2:37am
might have been a 5E Coke.  with a 5 roller frame; i have never seen any; but peter oflaherty who posts on here sometimes, said he saw one once
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2019 at 10:28pm
Ok guys...looks like we got away from Roberts original problem...anxious to see how his repair turns out. So while were waiting...I'll join in. In our collection we have a HD5G loader...serial number 26779 (looks like)?  It has a 6 ROLLER TRACK FRAME. We have had it for maybe 10 years....any thoughts?
 photo P3210002_zpshxwuqlg3.jpg
It has 40 links....looks pretty original...studied up on the specs...don't see it here?
 photo P3210001_zpsu2vi9lhk.jpg
Any thoughts on this...looked like a good place to intervene with these questions photo HD50001_zpszyqyucwm.jpg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 1:00am
Maybe an HD6 Frame?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 7:35am
Thank you Mel for the share and input. Always great hearing from you.
HD16DC, Bobcat 863 Turbo, Oliver 1855, John Deere 855,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 12:48pm
Mn HD5G is 26784 - 1955 and is 37 link - I bought a set of HD6 track and put on another 5G I had and used the extra length to add to another set I needed on a 5B I was selling 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2019 at 9:37pm
Well, My HD6B is back in service with a few minor adjustments.  Here is a link to a video of my self made line boring machine. https://youtu.be/jVofyrJ6sU0  I was successful in lineboring the housing first time to a fit of .0005.  It took running many times taking approximately .004 off per run.  
I have assembled it all and have dragged my pothole ridden drive way.  Boy do I need a lot of practice running this machine.
The adjustments that I need to make involve the steering clutches.  I set the free play to about 2" and found that the right clutch did not disengage completely with out the use of the brake.  I've been advised to remove free play to start to find out if I can get it to work more effectively....steering without the use of the brake.  I did remove the free play in the right clutch and it did start steering without the use of the brake.  Seems to turn better in reverse.  I did add two steel plates to the steering clutch packs to bring the measurements into spec.  I have bi metal plates.  Both clutches were taken apart....added new springs to one of them but don't remember which one that got the new springs.  Also had new brake bands installed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2019 at 9:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2019 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by rhead rhead wrote:

uploads/19285/IMG_7269.jpg
setting up the line bore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 9:24pm
I've done more than my share of line boring, but the bores were usually 6 to 10 inches in diameter and anywhere from 6 feet to 16 feet apart . We had a hydraulic unit that drove the motor and the feed. It was a real PITA when getting set up, mainly because the speed and feed changed considerably when the oil temperature warmed up. I would have to count revolutions per minute, then measure travel in a minute with an  indicator to figure what my feed rate was.
 We were also, usually several feet off the ground to do the work too Wink
 I fixed a LOT of old punch presses that way, then made up new bronze bearings to fit my bore and the crankshaft.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 13 Apr 2019 at 9:29pm
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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