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V-twin Honda mower won’t run when warm.

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:35pm
Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the moto

so it does work off some type of vacuum sysyem or fuel pump suction... and not gravity feed... that could be a clue..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2022 at 10:02pm
If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.

Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer…
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:36am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

<span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the moto</span>
<span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">so it does work off some type of vacuum sysyem or fuel pump suction... and not gravity feed... that could be a clue..</span>

It is supplied by a plastic vacuum operated fuel pump. I’ve removed, inspected and cleaned all the fuel lines and fuel pump. I started it with the fuel line to carb in a jug. It pumped a steady stream.
I removed the pump, cleaned it and put vacuum to it. I found no vacuum leakage.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:39am
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.

Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer…

Tram you really have me thinking.
Last winter when gas prices started going up.
I went and filled every can on the property.
The successful run I had with the mower was with fresh non e gas that I had just bought that morning. It was also cooler that day.
When at its worst was with the winter bought gas.

Edited by Thad in AR. - 21 May 2022 at 6:41am
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:40am
Assuming pump gets it's vacuum from a valve cover..... are the bolts securing the valve cover tight ? Any oil drips from that cover ?

Going far out on a limb but.... as then engine heats up, valve cover becomes 'loose' from head, loss of vacuum, loss of gas, engine stops. when it all cools down...'runs fine'.

hay, I only got so many straws left !
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:57am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Assuming pump gets it's vacuum from a valve cover..... are the bolts securing the valve cover tight ? Any oil drips from that cover ?

Going far out on a limb but.... as then engine heats up, valve cover becomes 'loose' from head, loss of vacuum, loss of gas, engine stops. when it all cools down...'runs fine'.

hay, I only got so many straws left !

Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake.
Valve covers were tight when I removed them to check valves.
Yhey have very nice well made gaskets.
May check intake bolts???
Hondas seem to be well machined with good seal ability.
I’ll keep checking.
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fixer1958 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:25am
Where is the ignition pickup on that?
I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel.
Get hot and start doing what you described.
You can learn to hate something very quickly.


Edited by fixer1958 - 21 May 2022 at 7:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:30am
A favorite diagnostic tool is a can of ether.
When it dies, right away give it a snort of ether and see if you get some action.
Fuel was winter blend, how old is it? 4 months, or the previous year, 16 months?
Anyone know what old gas symptoms look like?

What make, year, model # is this mower?  That will help for using internet search
about this issue.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:07am
re: Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake.
                                              ****
well I know this is a 'farming website'.....

I'll assume 'spellcheck' or 'phatphingers', hehehe

ok, maybe 'google' your engine/ dies when hot  to see if it's a common problem ??
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:17am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

re: Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake.
                                              ****
well I know this is a 'farming website'.....

I'll assume 'spellcheck' or 'phatphingers', hehehe

ok, maybe 'google' your engine/ dies when hot  to see if it's a common problem ??

Vacuum port.
Was supposed to say barb.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:20am
Originally posted by fixer1958 fixer1958 wrote:

Where is the ignition pickup on that?
I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel.
Get hot and start doing what you described.
You can learn to hate something very quickly.



I have not pulled the flywheel.
I figured everything was charging related under there.
These coils each have a 4 prong plug plus the coil/spark plug wire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.

Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer…


Interesting I never knew that, would explain why a electric fuel pump at the tank will take care of vapor lock problems sometimes.

I guess it’s same principle as boiling water at room temperature. Pulling a vacuum.

Edited by Kansas99 - 21 May 2022 at 8:31am
"LET"S GO BRANDON!!"
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am
Originally posted by fixer1958 fixer1958 wrote:

Where is the ignition pickup on that?
I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel.
Get hot and start doing what you described.
You can learn to hate something very quickly.



Cub Cadet
17AGACACN56
Honda GXV 630
688cc.
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fixer1958 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 9:33am
I see what you have now. Not the same as that POS Onan.
Possibly be a fuel line sucking air some place. Maybe opening up a little when hot.
I have had one collapse before internally and not see it. It was an automotive style low pressure fuel line on my WD line from the tank to the carb. 
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 10:29am
Originally posted by fixer1958 fixer1958 wrote:

I see what you have now. Not the same as that POS Onan.
Possibly be a fuel line sucking air some place. Maybe opening up a little when hot.
I have had one collapse before internally and not see it. It was an automotive style low pressure fuel line on my WD line from the tank to the carb. 

Been giving this some thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 12:26pm
there are some electric fuel pumps that put out 2 psi and go inline from the tank to the carb... they only cost $15.  ......... used on a lot of mowers.




Edited by steve(ill) - 21 May 2022 at 12:31pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2022 at 1:48pm
Since we are fishing, I would ohm out those coil packs when it won't run, especially the weak/dead side.  Highly unlike;y but I have seen new parts right out of the box bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 7:40am
Originally posted by Dave H Dave H wrote:

Since we are fishing, I would ohm out those coil packs when it won't run, especially the weak/dead side.  Highly unlike;y but I have seen new parts right out of the box bad.

I wish I knew how?
These have 4 prong plugs.
I’ve tried to figure out just how these work with no success.
I tried them like a common old coil but got nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:03am
Well if it still does the same thing changing all those parts it's likely not the problem.
Step back a little and ask the great white buffalo for a clue.

Seriously though, I think when you do figure it out it may be something stupid.
Has happened to me before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:56am
Originally posted by fixer1958 fixer1958 wrote:

Well if it still does the same thing changing all those parts it's likely not the problem.
Step back a little and ask the great white buffalo for a clue.

Seriously though, I think when you do figure it out it may be something stupid.
Has happened to me before.

Oh I assure you stupid has already kicked in. I should have found a way to test those very expensive coils before I bought them.
I took it to a supposed reputable shop to get this figured out.
He said he had no way to test coils. After a few questions I found. Him to be an oil changer and no more experienced in this than I and at $80.00 an hour I had to bring it back home.
Not knocking the guy or his prices just that he can’t figure this out and told me so.
I actually appreciate his honesty.
And yes I’m sure this is gonna be something simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riprock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:56pm
Do you have the service manual? I did a search and zoomed in on the cover and noticed it shows the carb has a plastic screen inside the fuel inlet. I ran into that many years ago on a kerosene blow type heater. It would run awhile and then run out of fuel, let it sit and it would run again, for awhile.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2022 at 10:31pm
i do not know what honda engine that you have but honda rt 5000 compact tractor has a plain gx 390 except for one thing it has a cdi box to control the spark , if it starts going bad it will cause the same problems , i know this for a fact because we over hauled one for a guy about eight years ago  becaucse a regular  honda engine will not bolt or fit in the tractor   , about  three years ago he had cdi problems a guy in new york will send a rebiult one if you send him your bad one 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 4:56am
Originally posted by Riprock Riprock wrote:

Do you have the service manual? I did a search and zoomed in on the cover and noticed it shows the carb has a plastic screen inside the fuel inlet. I ran into that many years ago on a kerosene blow type heater. It would run awhile and then run out of fuel, let it sit and it would run again, for awhile.



The little screen is removed at the moment. It didn’t help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 5:43am
Originally posted by HudCo HudCo wrote:

i do not know what honda engine that you have but honda rt 5000 compact tractor has a plain gx 390 except for one thing it has a cdi box to control the spark , if it starts going bad it will cause the same problems , i know this for a fact because we over hauled one for a guy about eight years ago  becaucse a regular  honda engine will not bolt or fit in the tractor   , about  three years ago he had cdi problems a guy in new york will send a rebiult one if you send him your bad one 

This is a Honda GXV630RH QAMT
Book says CDI variable timing.
I’m not box I can find is the regulator/rectifier.
It also has two relays in line with the rectifier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 6:22am
this !!!!!
These have 4 prong plugs. !!!!!!!
HUGE RED FLAG !!!

I had a Cub here,Kohler powered,same idea though.... the 'electronic' magnetos can (will...) overheat and eventualy die. Kphler's fix ( only used 2-3 years) was to disco the part and go back to ,yup, OLD SKOOL mags. They even sell a 'rework' kit(2 mags and a wire...). You need to check Honda's website for specific 'tech bulletins' on your engine.
It'd be interesting to see if they still sell that engine with that style mag.

I strongly suspect heat is 'altering' the 'electronic magneto pack' and it's shutting down. My 'fix' for the Cub here was to sell ,at a low price with FULL DISCLOSURE of the problem, and link to new mag kit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 7:27am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

this !!!!!
These have 4 prong plugs. !!!!!!!
HUGE RED FLAG !!!

I had a Cub here,Kohler powered,same idea though.... the 'electronic' magnetos can (will...) overheat and eventualy die. Kphler's fix ( only used 2-3 years) was to disco the part and go back to ,yup, OLD SKOOL mags. They even sell a 'rework' kit(2 mags and a wire...). You need to check Honda's website for specific 'tech bulletins' on your engine.
It'd be interesting to see if they still sell that engine with that style mag.

I strongly suspect heat is 'altering' the 'electronic magneto pack' and it's shutting down. My 'fix' for the Cub here was to sell ,at a low price with FULL DISCLOSURE of the problem, and link to new mag kit.

Sure wondering if I could put old non electronic coils on this?
I have too much time in it to give in.
Jenny may not think this way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 10:37am
has a very quick look on the net,googling .... Honda GXV630RH QAMT
found this....
 seems there's TWO  coils $98 vs $155. My guess is the 'cheap' one is 'normal', the 'expensive ' one is electronic.....

Use your engine model info and snoop around....
google the honda coil numbers from that site to see what they are

it's nice outside, I  wanna go play......

HTH
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2022 at 11:33am
Ignition coil issues, look around for this pdf:

GX690-Ignition-Coil-Bulletin.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 5:21am
I got put in contact with a guy yesterday who swears this will be the fuel solenoid.
He told me a couple more tests to try. He thinks heat is getting to it and it gets weak the hotter it gets.
I may run it without it one time just to see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 6:41am

 had a look.... #1 in the right dwg...

/carburetor
..
hopefully you CAN remove and plumb up a 'bypass'......

Kohlers were(are?) bad for 'gumming' up the innerds of the solenoid valve(varnish from E10 gas...). quik test is to remove the rubber tip and reinstall it. no rubber, no stopping the gas..

I may have said all this before ??


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