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201 engine assembly |
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W Speedy
Bronze Level Joined: 17 Sep 2020 Location: Maine Points: 28 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 5:49am |
Marv,
Did you have a shop manual for the engine assembly? If so, which one? There’s a few out on the market. I have a 46’ W Speed Patrol getting ready for a rebuild this fall, the block is at the machine shop now. I’ve rebuilt a few engines over the years, but the brass shims were something new to me. Thanks, Bill
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ihscout
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jul 2011 Location: Northern CO Points: 147 |
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Thanks for the reply believe me I've done that myself I believe I found an engine on this forum that somebody is selling rebuilt I think I'm going to go that route
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8272 |
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Click on farm equipment and upper left should have start new topic.
Welcome! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4658 |
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It depends on what you need.
I found a set of sleeves. pistons, rings and O rings at a real good price. After I bought a gasket set, main bearings, rod bearings and cam bearings, I had more money in it than if I had bought a complete kit.
After I took the head to the machine shop, I found out I needed a complete valve set. Now I'm way over what I could have bought a kit for. |
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ihscout
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jul 2011 Location: Northern CO Points: 147 |
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Sorry to slip into your subject matter here but for some reason they won't let me start a new topic. I'm rebuilding the 125 cubic inch engine in my 1940 B tracker anybody got ideas as to the best and cheapest rebuild kit
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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I am going to fix the pictures in this post as time allows.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5749 |
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Using resistance plugs have an immeasurable effect on ignition timing. what they Do affect, is mag coil inter winding voltage. When resistance wire or plugs are in a mag circuit, the voltage which appears in the mag coil is substantially higher. it's very hard on the coil insulation.
the reason for resistance wires or plugs, is to suppress harmonics... dining between the plug gap and ignition coil of a battery-coil system. when a high tension coil arcs across a gap, the magnetic field of the coil collapses rapidly, and it tends to ring like striking a bell. this running causes incredible radio interference, which doesn't play well with radio receivers, computers, and other electronics. |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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That video was shot like 10 seconds after the initial startup. I had the mag in centered in the slot. Since then I moved the mag all the way out and it does sound much better. I tried to retime it the way Tom said above, but didn't seem to make a difference. I still have to have it out all the way to run its best. But yes, you are correct. If you move the mag back, it does sound like it's laboring.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5749 |
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Sounds excellent- it's hitting very evenly on every cylinder.
Now, it could be the audio quality, could be sound level... and it could be that it's just still breaking in... but it sounds like it's laboring a bit. How much advance is it indicating now when running? |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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O.K., finally got some time to mess with the video of the engine running. I created a youtube account and up loaded it there. So lets try this-
https://youtu.be/Kx8D3ydmMsg I will try and make a better video when I get some free time. |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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Allis dave
Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2913 |
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Way to go Marv! There's nothing like hearing your engine run for the first time. Hope you can get the oil leak fixed. I never saw one leak like that. The WD45's even had an oil line dumping oil on top the gear and they didn't leak that much,
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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I use wire core spark plug wires on all mags.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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TomMN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elbow Lake, MN Points: 858 |
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The only way to fix the timing is to move the governor gear. You'll need to pull that out again and get the drive slot horizontal when your pulley set screw is pointing at the floor or at the ceiling.
It seems odd that there would be so much oil coming out from that small shaft that it would make a mess anywhere but the front of the engine. |
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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Thanks Tom. I will try retiming the mag because that bothers me that it runs the best when pulled all the way out. Makes me wonder if it would run better if I could move it more.... I may even start it, and remove the two bolts and turn the mag past the slots to see if it gets any better. It starts good, and I think it runs good, but I just wonder if it couldn't be better. I have to do something on that governor shaft. The fan is blowing the oil onto the rear fenders. I have a nice thick square cut rubber grommet that I may slip on there to at least slow it down.
Has anyone ever heard of using newer spark plug wires causing problems because the spark actually gets to the plug faster, which actually advances your timing? Because when you pull out on the top of the mag you are retarding it, no? |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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TomMN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elbow Lake, MN Points: 858 |
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On that oil leak, since there is no seal there they will all leak there. The front of these engines all would be very caked with oiled grime there. Factory designed flush system.
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TomMN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elbow Lake, MN Points: 858 |
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Great pictures!
To get your mag to be vertical when timed correctly the mag drive slot needs to be horizontal when at TDC. If you point the rotor at the tab for one that is when it will fire while running and will be 30 degrees before TDC. I would mount the governor with mag drive first then put the mag on it, with the mag at horizontal you will see the rotor is a bit after the timing tab in the cap. |
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BenGiBoy
Orange Level Joined: 11 Nov 2015 Location: Ashville, NY Points: 696 |
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Hip Hip Hip Hooray!!! She's running!!
Hope that the oil leaking around the governor shaft is an easy fix.... (Famous last words, but I still hope that....)
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'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
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allischalmerguy
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Deep River, IA Points: 2877 |
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Way to go!
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It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa,
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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Well, I had a fellow I work with rebuild the mag for me. I meant for him to show me how, but the two of us are so busy we could never find an hour to set down and go through the dang thing. He has all the parts in stock and rebuilds them regularly. So, got the set screw on the crank straight down, pointed the rotor at the plastic tab, and bolted it up.
Had to modify the gasket, as it didn't have a hole for the locating pin. Got a universal wire set from Fleet, and some Autolite 295s. Dumped in 5 quarts of 10w-30 and a bottle of zinc, I plan on running 15-40 in this motor, but figured I'd run 10w-30 for a break in oil. Filled the radiator, and the air cleaner cup, dumped a few gallons of non ethanol in the tank. Checked the tranny oil as well. Hooked up a mechanical gauge just to be sure on the oil pressure. And cranked her over. Actually started pretty good, I think. I shot a video of it running, but I'll be danged if I can get it to upload. It has about 12 psi oil pressure, might add a shim to try and bring that up. Coolant temp at the water manifold seemed to settle in to 150 degrees. Of course, I hopped on and took it for a spin up the street quick. All gears seem good. I loosened the mag, and moved it back and forth. It seems to run the best when I pull the top of the mag away from the block, like this. Now the bad news. There is oil leaking out of the governor shaft. I knew this was egged out, but didn't think there was that much oil up there, Apparently the governor and gear train must fling it around in there pretty good. Can a guy drill that out and bush it or something? More to come.... thanks for looking! |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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Skyhighballoon(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Pilot Grove, MO Points: 3115 |
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Welcome! If you want to get some additional answers to your question, please go create a new post in the "Farm Equipment" section and ask the exact same question (even though this is a crawler - same engine as some tractors) - you will get far more responses. Posting this question in someone else's post is not considered good form. This particular post is here in the knowledge base to help others doing an identical engine and the original poster is updating his progress as he goes along. Interjecting your question in the middle breaks the flow of his rebuild story. Good luck. Mike Edited by Skyhighballoon(MO) - 27 Jul 2016 at 1:38pm |
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1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex
1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8232 |
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I would say the compression increase would be negligible.You will likely find the counter bores are not square will the deck now(deeper on one side).
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trackicker
Bronze Level Joined: 18 Jul 2016 Location: usa Points: 1 |
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Hello, I'm a new-be to this site. Enjoying this engine build.
I have an H3 crawler with a 149cu I'm overhauling and wondering if anyone has some technical specs or at least experience with the block deck height. First, I have no idea if the block was surfaced in the past. It was warped .005, I knew someone with a mill and though I was ahead of the game expense wise...but it came back to bit me. It's unclear how much was taken off and will take a bit more to get squared up again. So now I'm wondering how much can be taken off before it becomes a problem, I don't want to end up needing av-gas to run thing. any 2 cents is welcome... |
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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To plug the crank I picked up some tapered corks from the local hardware store. Dug out as much of the wick as I could reach with a small pick. I put one cork in the front side, and think I actually drove two in from the back.
The pilot bearing almost slid in by hand, so I took a center punch, and staked or peened the bore where the bearing goes. That raises little metal to hold the bearing in. Make sure the end of the input shaft fits into the bearing before installation. |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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Bodnarboy
Bronze Level Joined: 18 May 2016 Location: Denton Maryland Points: 27 |
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Hey guys.....I made rookie boo boo and trimmed my rear main felt seal BEFOFRE I watched Don's video. New one be here tomorrow..Question for Littlemarv..I would like to use a sealed pilot bearing like yourself as it appears there was a lot of leakage judging by the inside of my clutch housing. Was it a direct fit? and if you don't mind what is there any special procedure for plugging the crank with the cork? I greatly appreciate all of your help thus far. I plastigauged my crank and the shim kit from Sandy Lake worked great. I have water jacket and rocker assembly installed. Your post has been a lifesaver!!
Billy |
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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The pilot bearing fit pretty easily, so I staked the bore a little with a center punch. That, and a little green Loctite should take care of it.
Torqued the flywheel on, and marked the two "F" marks, and the TDC one that lines up with the setscrew on the front pulley. Not sure if I will need them or not, but they are easier to see. Lined up the disk and bolted the pressure plate on. Got the manifold on as well. Made my own studs. The short ones are from a 3406 Cat, and the two long ones are from Fastenal. Also got some thick 3/8" washers, and two 7/16" washers for the center two studs. Edited by littlemarv - 02 Sep 2017 at 9:40pm |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8272 |
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Littlemarv,
You have a WD group following you! Welcome Forum newcomers, sounds like your lost in the 50's like me! (With 7 tractors from the 50's) Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Bodnarboy
Bronze Level Joined: 18 May 2016 Location: Denton Maryland Points: 27 |
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Littlemarv,
Took that second look and lined up like a charm! Thanks a MILLION! Billy |
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WDDave
Silver Level Joined: 02 Jun 2016 Location: pa Points: 68 |
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New to the forum,
Great job littlemarv with your rebuld, I will get there one day. I wanted to ask DaveKamp if there are any fixes for a crack between the intake and exaust port as he described other than head replacement? I will know better when I get 1/2" of grease scrapped off but I think I have a crack in that area. I have a 1950 WD with 4" tall head. |
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Bodnarboy
Bronze Level Joined: 18 May 2016 Location: Denton Maryland Points: 27 |
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Littlemarv,
I apologize for spelling your name wrong in last post! You truly are a life saver! I have come a long way on my build thus far and don't want to fail now. I will definitely take a close look tonight after supper :-) Your post has been a huge help! Thank you Billy |
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littlemarv
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Wisconsin Points: 1829 |
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It appears that I have washers under the nuts because I DO have washers under the nuts. Page 4 of the WC parts and operating instructions book. Item number 32, quantity 12.
Take a close look at those three holes on the cam and gear. They should only line up one way. |
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
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