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R62 in dry edible beans

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Acguywill View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Jan 2024
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    Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 2:11pm
Have been using an R62 in dry beans the last 3 years and would like to increase its capacity. First two years had a first gen sunnybrook rotor in it and last year I put in a bison rotor. Bison rotor eliminated all rotor rumble and plugging and also brought rotor loss way down. The only complaint I have is that it didn't increase capacity very much and it took all the power the combine had. What I think is happening is that it is overthreshing the beans as there is nothing coming out of the discharge but the stringy material from the vines. I don't know if it is rolling in the cage or what but it is definitely sucking the horse power. Now I am thinking of modifying the concave to a screen type, something with round holes about an inch in diameter and also doing the same to the separator grate. Anyone have some experience or suggestions? Also looking for a wrecked concave and grate to work with if anyone has some in their scrap pile and would be willing to part with them for cheap. Don't want to cut up my existing ones in case my experiment doesn't work.
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ryan(IN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryan(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 5:22pm
I’d leave the concave alone and install steep pitch helicals on the thresher side and transition to regular helicals on the separator side.
ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 5:33pm

Get an Agtalk account and correspond with Tom Koppel. He’s doing edible beans with a 62
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 5:35pm
I'd sure like to take another R-62 with a standard rotor (with all forward cylinder bars) and a couple of altered helical bars and run against what you are currently complaining about. I'd probably wedge the concave a little more and maybe a slight wedge in the adjustable sep grate if there's rotor loss. It would be an interesting comparison of appetite performance versus rotor loss. Running the engine at 100% power all the time is like the early N-6 combines with worn out rounded edge helicals, crooked concaves, reverse bars and swelled cages and then failed engines because they worked too hard too long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 7:01pm
I am with the good Dr on set up....you should not be using all your power in beans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 7:14pm
What size header are you using?
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 7:26pm
I guess I should have added that we did put in a full set of steep pitch helicals from agco. It definitely helped even with the sunnybrook rotor but my rub bars wore out and no replacements are available for them. I figured if there was too much rotor loss with the Bison I could always retard the flow by adjusting the angle of the separating tines. Before we got the R62 we had an R7 and the old allis engine definitely had more grunt than the cummins. That being said the old P1 processor in it didn't take too kindly to that power and even after I basically doubled up all the ribs in the cage it still blew up. Just for reference, in pintos mid afternoon, 3.7mph in a 3000lb crop taking in 30ft, windrowed with a Pickett one step. Rotor and shoe loss combined <.2bu/acre. When the sun goes down struggle to maintain 2mph and very little change in loss.
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Acguywill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 7:32pm
The reason I was thinking about using screen is because that is what is used in the Pickett bean combines. They have no concaves and no rasp bars, just screens, a couple of knives at the front of the rotors and adjustable tines for the threshing and separating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 8:37pm
Be a lot of work, but cut pieces of concave wires and weld on top of the existing wires one at a time to make concave resistance less, but allow for separation of the seed. Also, what about wheat cover plates?? other than no separation with those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 9:21pm
That might actually work Doc. That is what I was hoping to accomplish with the screen idea, lots of separation with minimal threshing. The sooner the beans are out of the rotor/cage the less chance of them being damaged. Was thinking of maybe just doing the removable part of the concave and leaving the rear portion to thresh out what wasn't done in the lower part. I think that it is the separator grate that is sucking most of the power and with beans it would be almost impossible for them to get that far without being threshed out. Unless there are still some green/wet pods in the swath, but I would rather they go straight out the back as they are the ones that cause all the problems further along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2024 at 10:08pm
I never did find a separator grate to work with but have a few ideas to try and make the one I have work. Mine is the low-wire chromed version but apparently there are high-wire ones as well. Not sure what they look like and likely never will as they are discontinued in chrome and on back order non chromed. So my next option is to get a cover kit part #71373509. Also on back order and have no idea if it would work or not as there is no description of it anywhere that I can find. Apparently there are some in stock at various dealers but none within a thousand miles so not likely to lay eyes on one. Does anyone know what the kit looks like or how effective it is? My next option would be to modify my existing one. Was thinking of pulling all the wires and adding a bar between each existing one so material would flow over better instead of having to bounce over the way it does now. My thinking is that with the narrower spacing material would not have time to fall in but still be open enough for beans to fall through. My suspicion is that with the current grate the material is getting rolled between the rotor and the grate and that is the reason why it is using so much power and almost all the plant material is ending up on the shoe. Any idea if this would work? I really don't want to modify my existing grate just to scrap it if it doesn't work and then have to find another that doesn't cost a fortune. A new chromed one is about $6k cdn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2024 at 7:44am
I think I'd try and find some flat strap steel that will fit in between the separator grate bars, (flush with the bars) and drill 1 inch holes in the strap exactly between the existing wires. Maybe a piece of channel iron on its edges would get the right height ?? Not there looking at it, but this would be smoooth and still allow some separation of the seed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2024 at 10:31pm
I tried making some flat straps with 1 inch holes in it today but decided that it didn't leave enough open area. Ended up pulling all the wires and taking it to a welding/fabricating shop. The plan is to make a cover with 1×1.5 inch holes in it that will cover the entire grate. Now the question is what type and thickness of material to make it out of? Was thinking about 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick hardox or stainless steel. The stainless would be easier to roll to match the curvature of the grate but not sure if it will be hard enough to last. Any ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2024 at 6:20am
The new cover cannot protrude up into the cage area, There must be a smooth flow of material as the material enters and leaves this area. As far as the type of material?? stainless should wear well, as should "T-1" steel. I think the important thing right now is to make it work first and figure out the service life second.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2024 at 9:41am
I am not familiar with the R62, is it possible, you are attempting to push too much thru it?
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 12:27pm
Had a cover made from stainless and I welded it in place. Made a bit of a difference but not much. Next problem, helical bar wear. Have less than 150hrs on a set of steep pitch bars and they are almost shot. Hopefully can get another 375 acres out of them and will be done with this machine for this year. The most worn bars are in the separating area with the transition area being the very worst. Least worn are in the threshing area. Would have expected it to be the other way around. Anyway still struggling with capacity and the only thing that seems to help is increasing rotor speed but then splits and cracks go through the roof. Currently running at about 250rpm. Noticed a typo in my earlier post should have been 2.7 not 3.7mph.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 9:59pm
Well the cage blew up today. I guess worn helicals are the least of my problems. Parts are probably going to be more than it's worth but what can you do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Acguywill Acguywill wrote:

Well the cage blew up today. I guess worn helicals are the least of my problems. Parts are probably going to be more than it's worth but what can you do?
just wondering? Has any of the R62’s main belts & sheaves (engine crank, rotor, accelerator rolls, fan, cleaning shoe, etc) ever been checked for wear grooves in sheaves & glazed over belts? What if any of them has been replaced in 3 yrs?

Edited by AC7060IL - 11 Sep 2024 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 11:32pm
The machine gets looked over every year and there is definitely some wear on some pulleys and sheaves. No glazed belts though and no belts running in the bottom of the groove. The rotor belt is the only main one that has been replaced recently. Have not noticed any belt slippage or bounce and I usually do a walk around while the machine is operating once a day. Also check for loose or missing cage bolts every morning. It looks like the center ring of the cage broke and that allowed the concave to drop on one end which lead to a cascade of other failures. Didn't notice anything was wrong other than getting some rotor rumble if I started pushing too hard. I realized there was something wrong when I heard a thumping sound and got out and noticed that the left side of the combine was moving in and out about an inch. That must have been when the helical bars that cross over from the threshing to separating side finally broke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2024 at 1:21pm
Ended up getting a used cage and did extensive reinforcing to it. Also put in a full set of new steep pitch helicals and extended the helical from the corner of the feeder house about 10 inches into the separator grate. I did that to try and get some of the material away from the transition area and reduced wear on the first part of the separator half of the cage. Haven't seen any increase in capacity but hopefully it will increase longevity. Did about 50 acres with it yesterday and the new helical bars are already wearing out so now I am not sure what to do. Maybe these combines are not cut out for doing beans. Between the cost of the cage, helicals, and a week's work I know that I have sank over 10k into it and it's looking like it may only last a few hundred acres. Starting to look like I should come up with a plan b.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryan(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2024 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Acguywill Acguywill wrote:

Ended up getting a used cage and did extensive reinforcing to it. Also put in a full set of new steep pitch helicals and extended the helical from the corner of the feeder house about 10 inches into the separator grate. I did that to try and get some of the material away from the transition area and reduced wear on the first part of the separator half of the cage. Haven't seen any increase in capacity but hopefully it will increase longevity. Did about 50 acres with it yesterday and the new helical bars are already wearing out so now I am not sure what to do. Maybe these combines are not cut out for doing beans. Between the cost of the cage, helicals, and a week's work I know that I have sank over 10k into it and it's looking like it may only last a few hundred acres. Starting to look like I should come up with a plan b.

Get on the combine forum and ask some of those guys there that have done edible beans. That or call butler ag at hoople North Dakota and talk to Dan Hurtt. None of what you’re describing is normal. Helicals should not wear that fast unless you’re not using chrome helical bars. Dan does a steep pitch kit and makes some changes to how agco has it setup and that might help you as well.
ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2024 at 3:36pm
I talked to Dan a while back and I think we put the helicals in similarly to how he described it. He recommended a different rotor but I can't remember which but one with sweeps on it. I did take out the hockey stick style pins from the Bison rotor and made what I would call flag style ones which are basically sweeps. Can't say I noticed a difference but beans have been weathered for a couple more weeks due to the rains so hard to compare. The helicals I put in are chromed and came from agco so I have no idea why they are wearing so fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2024 at 3:45pm
I should also add that there is really not much material entering the combine. A thirty foot windrow at about 3mph max down to about 1.5 in spots averaging 2.2ish in 3500lbs beans. Feeder chains in low speed with no feeder house mods done and have never plugged it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2024 at 8:24am
How many REVERSE cylinder bars do you have on the rotor ????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2024 at 9:20am
Zero. Tried running the rotor everywhere from 160 to 260 with very little change in performance other than basically a linear increase in capacity. Over 260 bad things start happening to the beans. Actually has good capacity at about 450 plus but at that speed it looks as if the beans have went through a hammer mill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:57pm
Pulled the rotor out a couple of days ago and had a good look at the helicals. Anywhere from like new to I would say 40% gone in around 70 acres of use in dry beans. Did some further mods to the rotor by adding some old chopper knives to it to try and cut the crop mat up and keep it moving. Tried it today with no change in capacity and now have a busted rotor gearbox. Beans were cracking badly so slowed the rotor to 180 and slipped the belt. Put it in neutral reversed the feeder house opened the concave and emptied the rock trap. Put the gearbox back into low engaged the separator rotor turned a bit then bang. A chunk of gearbox housing fell on the ground. Not happy. Anyway need to get this thing sorted and am wondering where to start. I am wondering if the steep pitch helicals on the separator end are the problem? It seems like the crop wants to keep going around instead of being conveyed out, or is the problem with the rotor in that it is not allowing the material to be moved out? Getting late in the season to be experimenting. Option one, go back to regular pitch helicals on the separator end and reinstall the Bison rotor. Option two, leave the steep pitch helicals in and put the agco rotor back in with all forward bars. Or three, regular helicals with the agco rotor. Anyone have some insight? It would be much appreciated.
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