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HD11B

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9817
Printed Date: 03 Dec 2021 at 2:21pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: HD11B
Posted By: rcfynrdt
Subject: HD11B
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 3:52pm
Going to be looking at a HD11b dozer on auction need the good bad and ugly on them. 
 
Thanks
 



Replies:
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 5:01am
 
 
These machine are very good but check the undercarriage condition they
are very expensif $$


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:52am
Are you talking about a series B HD11 or the older original Hd11B? Powershift or Direct Drive? We currently have 3 running HD11B series powershift tractors. Great tractors! One of the policies we have adopted over running them for the last 30 years is monitoring and changing the bearings in the accessory drive and idler pulleys, sometimes as often as 1000 hours. When they wear and begin to wobble they can hit the fan blade and take out a whole bunch of important stuff up there, including radiators. Any way that's something you should check before running it hard. We are also doing restoration work on some older HD11B's with the lanova style fuel engine. Hectors right the undercarrige is important, they don't make new rails for the series B but there is used stuff out there. The older 11s have a different size undercarrige than the B series, but those components are avaiable used also.


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 11:33am
I also remebered that the earliest 11s had trouble with the intermideate pinon caps,visible through the sprocket spokes appox 6'' dia. The early ones used 1/2'' fine thread bolts which would work loose and strip out, ultimately leading to bearing failure and broken cases. Within several years they upgraded to 5/8'' fine thread bolts which aleveiated the problem. It shoud be pretty easy to see the cap if the sprocket guard cover is off. If the bolts have a 3/4'' hex head then there 1/2'' if it has 15/16'' head then there 5/8'' fine thread. Check the pinion cap and case for welding or other abuse. Oil leaking out of the bottom of the pionon cap through the shim pack would be another indication of a loose  cap.This problem was more common in logging and construction tractors than farm tractors. We also did our own maching to upgrade to 5/8'' bolts in some cases (you don't want to try that at home). Anyway this is real simple visual inspection you should check out. Great tractors! if there was an ugly this could be one off them


Posted By: rcfynrdt
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 5:47pm

I have gained some more information it is a 1973 11B model (actually fiat allis).  Has powershift.  Question is after talking to owner he said the rollers are going to have to be replaced.  What do these cost and are they still available new. 

Thanks


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 6:12pm
 You could check with CRAWLER HEAVEN 315-597-6899


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 6:30pm
Removing the rollers and if they are just worn away have them either weld resurfaced or remetalized then remachined, about 1/2 the cost of new(if available) and will last as long. 


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 6:32pm
I had been looking at a 11B in Central Missouri, would need some work so I started pricing and looking for pieces, really high dollar when you get into track work.


Posted By: blademan
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 10:45pm
i have a pair of rails with track pads  for a hd9 or hd11b series 38 link chain -75 percent pins/bushings and betetr on rail height ... impossible to find this good.... $3850.00 for the pair of rails ....inquire to  mailto:dozerman@netins.net - dozerman@netins.net ..... can send pictures..


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 3:14am
Tracks on series B 11s are not exclusive to those tractors. All 11s with hydraulicly actuated steer clutches have same chains, truck wheels, and carrier rollers. Earlier spoked idlers will interchange with series B solids, as will spoked sprockets but inner final drive seal is different for solid sprocket hubs. Series B track frames are heavier with webbing across diagonal brace, but still interchangeable with earlier 11s. HD9 and all dry steer 11s have smaller diameter truck wheels, slightly smaller diameter chain pins and bushings, but chains are the same width.
Mactractor


Posted By: blademan
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 11:53pm
WELL IVE GOT A PART # 078701 RIGHT OF THE SIDES OF THE RAILS..IVE GOTA 11B WITHA PART # OF 078702 ... I WONDER WHERA GUY COULD GET THE SPECS ON NEW PINS/BUSHINGS AIZE AND RAIL HEIGHT.. IVE MEASURED FOR THE MOST PART EVERYTHING...IM 100 PERCENT SURE THEY COME OFA ALLIS HD9 ,BUT NOT SURE IF THEY WERE " FACTORY" ....IM SURE THESES ARE LIKE HENS TEETH TO FIND... AND THEY SEEM TO BE IN  VERY  GOOD SHAPE..


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 5:43am
These chaine links are for HD7 GB,HD9,HD11,250HN-HW-HLS-HTW-HS-HSS-HPL-G
and height 4.062", bushing 5 3/4" long,master boushing 4 5/8" long,capscrew 5/8",
7" pitch


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 4:31pm
ditto on an idler bearing failing and "getting" the radiator. Be sure to replace release springs  in P/S clutches if you rebuild one.


Posted By: edwin
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 8:42pm
hd 7g for sale with ripper.power shift.real good u/c 3800 for all r sell ripper separate details 417-718-0766 needs engine repair Lebanon mo


Posted By: crawford farms
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 7:26am
did you have any luck with finding the parts you needed? if so could you tell me where that is the very parts i am in need of along with pins and bushings too. thanks in advance


Posted By: crawford farms
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 9:18am
i am in need of a complete rail link part numbers 078701 & 078702 along with pins and bushings does anyone know where i could find these?


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 12:13pm
You could check with a dealer  BERCO or TRECK for undercariage parts.


Posted By: crawford farms
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 7:24pm
does anyone know of a site or list of Allis Chalmers HD dozers that use the rails 078701/078702 for I am in hope of finding a link to repair my track. a list would help narrow my search of salvage yards


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 7:42pm
Min -Par or something like that- goole it , its all out there


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 11:55am
Originally posted by crawford farms crawford farms wrote:

does anyone know of a site or list of Allis Chalmers HD dozers that use the rails 078701/078702 for I am in hope of finding a link to repair my track. a list would help narrow my search of salvage yards

Antique Cat guys talk of a site called Machine Trader. Mainly used construction equipment but many used parts dealers are connected. They talk of searching for parts numbers there.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 12:25pm
Allis added the numbers "70" to the beginning of the OLD PART NUMBERS in the 1970s when they went to the 8 digit numbers....

This is from a 7G parts manual, 1980 vintage...




-------------
Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 5:49pm
Allis rails have been Unobtanium for a few decades now, my own 7G was 7" pitch where I got lucky enough to find decent rails on a junker I bought for parts.  Are no new in the US anymore, be lucky to find ANY in salvage yard as these were a defined need for at least twenty years and dry pin rails generally do not make 3000 service hours before shot.  Also IH/Dresser/Dressta older loaders of the 175 series used them a few years but they were readily swapped to a different pitch and sprocket segments.

Closest I ever came to was 6.906(91) Cat Rails, requires different sprocket segments, rollers are a different width and mounting hole configuration but is easy enough to drop the truck frames and redrill as shown by another on here that has 11Bs


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:14am
Years ago I used to weld up chains on the wear side and my uncle would fly cut, or grind them to proper dimension on either his milling machine, or surface grinder. I never seen the machines the chains were from as they showed up on a pallet for rebuild. I only did the welding and build up of the worn links. Also welded up the gullets in sprockets, and idlers to be machined back round also.

The rod was expensive but overall the job was much less cost than replacement parts if they were available. I probably welded up over a hundred sets of chains myself to free him up for the machining. Never a problem I heard of.

Does nobody do this type work any longer? Couldn't a chinese outfit via alibaba supply pins and bushings if enough were purchased to be worthwhile? I don't know anybody in the area whom does track work any longer except for the Caterpillar dealer.

Sure wouldn't be too difficult to tool up to do this service if viable. I know a farmer whom will give me his HD21 with a worn out undercarriage if I want to work with it, but that is far too large of tractor for any need I would have.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 4:12am
Major issue with Dry Pin Rails is the Pin to Bushing wear, Pins and Bushings also Unobtanium materials so a rail that Appears fine for roller contact wear yet may be 110% worn on P&Bs or rails that have been welded up have no P&Bs to reassemble.  Lost cause, as these components are Hardened alloy steel, cannot simply use pipe and steel rod to replace them.

Italy(Berco) had the metric size replacements for these for Fiat Allis machines, just unable to get them to the US without excessive freight costs so do no longer offer them here.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 6:02am
I can't tell what they did with the pins and bushings as the chains needed to remain assembled for build up to preserve the round bores the bushing pressed in to. Once the rails were back to proper dimension for height, the chains were sent along to the next process but we didn't do any of that.

Years ago I had an IH pin tested for hardness to see what I was working with and it was case hardened to Rockwell 56C on the surface to about .065" deep. The center of the pin was just over 45 hardness on the Rockwell C scale. Don't know about the bushings but always assumed they were through hardened to absorb the wear from the working mechanisms both internal from the pins, and external from being driven.

Other than breaking a track in the field to work on undercarriage, or building them up as mentioned, I never really did any track work at all. That was always sent out for sublet work. Don't think I've ever worked on a SALT track myself but assume the seals would readily melt or the oil would cook off from the heat of welding and I don't remember any of that happening. The chains were always pressure washed clean when I seen them with the shoes removed. Really was a easy process once work flow was figured out.

 


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:48pm
I have read, it is to much trouble to put seals and oil in the new style tracks so no turning of pins and bushing now days. So less and less places have the equipment to do such work. 


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 4:54pm
Current rail systems are run to destruction purchases, once there they remove and scrap all that comes off.  No more recovering anything of track these days.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 7:19pm
I know you're right but I've not been around tracked machinery in a long time now. I remember when SALT tracks were new but quite costly, (early 1980's) and there was still a lot of track service going on. I remember one guy had a track press setup in the back of a modified "pup" trailer and would do pin and bushing turns "on site". I watched him do a partial set  and he must of had over a hundred different blocks for different track pitches. I want to say the press was a Rogers but could have been something else as it's been so long.

I remember the double bunk cabover Kenworth tractor with a drom box very well as it was kind of an oddity in those days, but he lived out of it.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 1:55pm
Sadly even the track press at Cat and Deere dealership shops sit drawing dust until some old machine owner wants to salvage a few more years of nearly no hours on.  New rails are not much higher than having a P&B turn performed but they want as cheap as possible.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 6:21pm
Last evening I sent off to China via alibaba.com a request for pins and bushings along with a chart listing the dimensions of each. Received a reply today with a quote of $38.00 for a mated set for the main pins and bushings. The reply also stated a minimum order of 250 sets so would require three tractor owners to make it feasible as an 11B series with standard track uses 78 pins and bushings, along with two master pins and bushings. I have requests in to three other vendors on there so maybe one will come back with less minimums. However,  this is only a single parts assembly needed and still leaves all other track parts with wear and the master pins and bushings not addressed. 


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Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 11:35am
Received a second quote from another supplier with a 100pc. minimum at $49.00 each set. 50 pins, and 50 bushings satisfy their minimum order quantity. In this quote as example the total would be $49.00 times 50 pins and bushings equaling in subtotal $2450.00 FOB China. I don't have a clue as far as shipping myself and I've asked for that for reference.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 9:08pm
Received a third quote which is the same business operating under a different name than the second??? Same figures but a different contact name.

Oh well, I'm not needing any parts but hope the tidbit of research I've done helps someone out along the way to keep an older machine operational a while longer.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Sadly even the track press at Cat and Deere dealership shops sit drawing dust until some old machine owner wants to salvage a few more years of nearly no hours on.  New rails are not much higher than having a P&B turn performed but they want as cheap as possible.


I was talking with my son in law whom works for Martin equipment and he mirrors what you stated on track work. They have a truck press and it is seldom used. The pin presses on the service trucks get regular usage, but all tracks are mostly wholesale replaced with SALT tracks except on very rare occasions. When someone wants to be cheap, or is looking to trade the machine off after tightening up the chains is about the only use the track press sees.



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