HD11 wet clutch leak
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89504
Printed Date: 30 Jun 2025 at 8:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD11 wet clutch leak
Posted By: Gargoyle
Subject: HD11 wet clutch leak
Date Posted: 13 May 2014 at 5:40pm
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My HD11 has a bit of a leak on the clutch.. near as I can tell. The fluid is coming out of the opening for the crankcase oil plug.. I can't see in the parts manual anything that would be leaking that far forward. I know this is not much to go on, but anyone have any thoughts on this? |
Replies:
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 13 May 2014 at 9:47pm
| Could be the clutch reservoir leaking. I've seen both it and the oil pan itself rubbed through on the belly pan, if the pan is pushed up. Or a connection at the reservoir. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 14 May 2014 at 5:53pm
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Thanks! The pan looks ok. At the bottom of the filler tube, there is so much gunk that I can't make out much.. Its a tough place to access too.. I see in the parts diagram that there is a hose from the reservoir to the pump. I'll see if that is leaking at the reservoir end.. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 14 May 2014 at 5:55pm
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It's not leaking a huge amount, but living by "always be prepared", I'd prefer to know what's happening before I'm out in the woods and something breaks... Lazyts, J McD sent me a used pin.. It's in the freezer awaiting a dry to to drive it in.. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 1:37pm
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My clutch leak issue continues. It's about the last item that causes me worry, with the rest of the 11 working pretty well. So far, the leak has dropped the fluid off the dipstick, about 2.5 gallons, in about 3 weeks. I can still not find the leak. I thought it was the return hose. That's about a 3" diameter by 5" long hose that sits just over the reservoir.. That appears to be an easy replace, except that it's in a tough spot. I tightened down the clamps and I don't see how it could leak as much as this is leaking. I traced the hydraulic line from the clutch to the heat exchanger. No leaks. Lazyts noted that it could be wear through in the reservoir itself. I also checked the parts manual and it shows a hydraulic line between the pump and the reservoir. Maybe it's that.. Is the fluid just for cooling? Does it supply pressure for the clutch? If I am out in the woods and something lets go and drains the tank, will the clutch slip? Or will it not be obvious that there is no clutch fluid. That's my worry. I don't mind having to fill this frequently, I just don't want to damage anything. Thanks |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 7:48pm
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The pump will wear rapidly to the point of being useless with no oil. The oil is just for cooling, hence the circulation pressure (quite low), although it does lube the clutch bearing. When the tractors are used for dozing, the clutch works hard, so the oil cooling is very important to prevent the expensive friction plates becoming warped from excessive heat. HD6 clutch oil pans would sometimes leak at the O ring where they bolt up to the flywheel housing, as well as the suction pipe and dipstick tube. Its well worth the effort of getting them as leak proof as you can |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:01pm
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Thanks Mactractor. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge! This would be a much easier fix, if I didn't have to drop the belly pan to find the leak... |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 11:00pm
| Probably time to drop the pan and clean it out anyway... |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 1:58pm
| Care to share the tried-and-true-secrets of dropping the pan? Is this a one-man job? |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 9:41pm
| I just use a floor jack. If it is outside, I use an old piece of plywood to run the jack in and out on. I do it one-man, but an extra hand never hurts. I find my help scatters when I mention "belly pan" or "master pin", not to mention "stand on your head in there and fix that leak" |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 9:46pm
| I guess I should practice what I preach- I had a fire in the pan of our 11 the other day, probably would have toasted the thing if a coolant hose hadn't ruptured and sprayed it down! |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:08am
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Thanks Lazyts. I thought of using a jack, but I was considering lowering the pan with 2 comealongs. The bottom of the pan is beveled so I was thinking it would slide off the jack.. I'll crawl under again and take another look. Minnpar has 2 of the seals for the bellhousing mount. I'll probably order them in advance, just in case that's the issue. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 11:25am
LOL.. I've had to resort to cash and post-work servings of red beer to get the helpers to show up.. Even then they aren't too enthusiastic. |
Lazyts wrote:Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 1:11pm
| roughly, how much does that pan weigh (minus dirt, snakes, oil crud)? |
Posted By: woodbutch
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 7:45pm
| no expert,but I did the floor jack on plywood alone. Just held the pan tight with jack and pulled all bolts off, then get out the way and drop jack. Going back on maybe more of challenge. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 5:03am
| Putting back on, use 4 pilots, made of all thread screwed into 4 of the bolt holes, and just jack back up into place. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 10:52am
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DiyDave, that sounds like a good idea. I'm headed to Harbor Freight to get a jack, as I only have bottle jacks now. The lift plate on the floor jacks is pretty small and that pan is pretty big.. I'm considering buying a transmission jack as it has a larger plate to balance the pan on.. We'll see what they look like when I get there. |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 12:08pm
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Quite often the pan will be "sprung" from bouncing over rocks and roots, so I use a bottle jack between the top corner of pan and track frame to line the bolts up. There is usually a couple of angle irons welded across those pans near the access holes which keep it from sliding off the jack. Pan probably weighs 150 pounds without debris in it, unless it has been "beefed up". |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 1:21am
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I fabbed up a larger plate for my floor jack that I just swap out for the small cup on the floor jack when I have something bulky to lower or lift. Not quite as versatile as a transmission jack but it works and is a lot less expensive. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 10:43am
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well that was easy.. about 10 minutes to drop the pan. I found the clutch leak.. Obviously Earl Scheib owned this thing before me. The clutch fluid reservoir has some rubbery, sealant on the bottom corner trying to seal a leak. This reservoir looks aluminum.. What's my best fix??? I have a flux-coated wire feed, and I heard you can weld aluminum with it, but does it take special wire? Harbor Freight had a jack sale and the make a $39.99 bar that replaces the jack pad. It fit sideways perfect and gave me front to back and side to side stability http://www.harborfreight.com/steel-floor-jack-cross-beam-60762.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.harborfreight.com/steel-floor-jack-cross-beam-60762.html |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 12:41pm
| If you have a good welding shop in your area where you know the team have experience with repairing `aged` aluminium, would be the best shot if you cant get a good non damaged used pan from a parted out tractor |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 7:24pm
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Has anyone pulled one of these reservoirs recently?The reservoir mounts, on the rear side, to a bracket that connects to the bellhousing. The bolts are in a very tight spot next to a crossmember that hangs the big leaf spring (whatever that's called). I can get a flat wrench up there to loosen the bolts, but it's a tight fit for my hand to get them restarted for installation. Is there a trick to this? |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 7:24pm
I pulled the reservoir today. It was covered in gunk.. somebody had sealed the oil pan to the reservoir with red glue..I have no idea why. It has a crack, about 1.5 inches in length. It's headed to the welding shop tomorrow. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 5:26am
| Always someone tries the cheap fix Red Glue as a fix all, my crawler was layered in the stuff on old gaskets or no gaskets trying to shut down leaks and smeared trying to 'fix' cracks. Crap gets into everything and on anything but where they actually wanted it. And if a little is enough then a lot is still too much, one spot on my tractor appeared he had emptied a full tube then squished the two parts together, stuff was to the point of plugging oil passages and was in every strainer. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 10:16am
This is what I scraped off. They completely filled in the gap between the oil pan and the reservoir with red and black sealant. I can see no leak that it was sealing.. I'm guessing they did it to keep the debris out from the gap..  |
Posted By: michale34
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 2:08pm
| I wonder if it was leaking before and someone used silicone because they thought it was rubbing against something . theres no telling I have seen a lot of things done over the years and I just scratched my head wondering why . |
Posted By: michale34
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 2:14pm
| I saw a guy one time trying to super glue the pads on the master clutch .a lot of people with heave equipment trying to make a living and they don't have money to fix thing right try do come up with some cheap fix just to get buy to get paid . I have done it myself but as soon as I was paid I always tried to fix it right and sometimes the cheap fix cost more in the end. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 7:44pm
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The tank is at Yarbroughs for welding. So there is no pressure gauge for the clutch.. When I get this all back together, how can I be sure I have good fluid pressure? |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2014 at 12:51am
| leaving the line from the pump to the clutch housing loose on start up for a couple of seconds will give you a rough idea of sufficient flow. I have added a gauge tee junctioned into the line for continuous display of pressure. Anywhere from about 8 pound to 15 pound was good from memory. Think I found a Murphygauge product with the right range (0-20 pound). I`ve also considered using the fuel pressure gauge for the purpose. |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2014 at 4:57pm
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Both of those are good ideas. I thought that I might take a block of aluminium and build a spacer for the flange that bolts to the heat exchanger. The spacer would be like 3/4" thick or so and mount between the hose flange and the heat exchanger. Drill and tap the side of the spacer for a gauge fitting (I think it's 1/4 npt) and run a line up to a dash mounted gauge. |