How big is TOO big when it comes to discs ??
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Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=87832
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Topic: How big is TOO big when it comes to discs ??
Posted By: hootsandgiggles
Subject: How big is TOO big when it comes to discs ??
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 4:14pm
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I was just wondering how you determine how big of a set of discs you can run behind a given size tractor ?? A friend told me I was most likely nuts (and he's likely right, on all other counts) ... to try to pull a 12 ft. transport disc behind my D-17 Series IV ... although I'm pretty certain I saw one of those old A-C videos where they were pulling a 16 ft. behind a WD-45 ?? Any thoughts ?? As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks, Mike C. ------------- Mike C. - NW PA **Jeremiah 29:11** 65 D17 Series IV gas wfe 
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Replies:
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 4:26pm
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We pulled a 212 w/traction booster with our WD45D in 2nd gear for many years. My uncle pulled a 214 with a D17 diesel. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 4:34pm
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The disk is too big when the tractor rears are acting like a rototiller but not moving the tractor forward. I took the wings off to get the disk down to 12 or 14 feet to pull behind my 4020. I learned from an old timer that pulling it at 6 to 8 mph was important for week killing. The high speed flips weeds up in the air and they stay on top and dry and die. Pulling much slower does stir the dirt but grasses seemed be be encouraged by multiple slow disk passes, not killed. I took an Oliver 12' disk and converted it to a 6' offset disk to pull with my MF-135 and being heavy it did a good job on the dirt. Gerald J. |
Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 4:38pm
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Gerald, It would be neat if you could post a pic of that modified disc and how you did it.. Mike ------------- It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa, |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 5:22pm
| Mike I pull a 13'6" Kewanee behind my series 4 diesel with no problems, high side of 3rd, and shift back on the steep hills when turning on the ends. As a mater of fact, I have a tendency to go too fast and throw ridges. I put all new blades on this a few years ago and I raise the wheels off the ground when I am pulling it. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:16pm
| Some older discs are 25 to 40 lbs per blade in weight and more modern discs might be 120 lbs or more per blade. Just claiming to pull a certain width of disc is only 1/4 of the story. Weight per blade and diameter of the blades and the angle of the gangs all play a huge part in how much tractor (and tires) it takes to pull it. |
Posted By: norm[ind]
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:35pm
| pulled a 10' wheel ac disk with a spike tooth harrow behind the disc with my wd we used duals on our tractors in the fifties plenty of power left over my 2 cents |
Posted By: powertech84
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:38pm
Amen. I was flipping through a new landoll vt7430 manual yesterday and they suggest a minimum of ten horsepower per foot. A wd45 would have its hands full pulling that disk without even lowering it. |
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: Cen IA John
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 7:53pm
| My WD could only pull the 8' SC disc, the D17D was able to pull a 14' JD RW(not a real heavy disc). 190XT was a 20' IH 480 with ease. 7020,8030 & 8050 was a 25' IH 496 with no problem. As stated the weight of the disc makes all the difference. |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 8:06pm
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Dr. Allis is correct. I had a 14' Kewanee with 20" blades that my 190XT just played with, so I traded it on a Kewanee 18' 1010 hydrofold. The first time I dropped it in the ground it killed the 190 before I could get the clutch in. When they sent me the book on the disc, it recommended 136 HP. I still used the disc, but with spacers in the lift cylinders to limit depth . ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 8:28pm
Pulling a disc at 6-8 mph would be disaster !! Going that fast would move a lot of dirt and create ridges. Unless the weeds are huge you would not want to use a disc for weed control. Field cultivators and finishers are a different story you want to get them up and moving to do better. The size of disc greatly depends on how good of a disc you have a newer heavier better disc pulls a lot harder. My grandfather pulled a 12ft Oliver with his D17 my 8030 struggles with my 22ft Sunflower. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2014 at 8:10am
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No disaster at 6+ mph. Before I added two rows of spring tooth behind the disk I made three passes with the disk and left with a nice smooth seedbed. This was after spring moldboard plowing. Then I did a shallow FC pass and the FC has three rows of spring tooth on the back for that final smoothing.The Shoup shovels I put on the FC didn't kill any weeds until I spent half a day under the FC with a grinder converting a blunt edge to a sharp edge. Gerald J. |
Posted By: hootsandgiggles
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 1:49pm
Well, I bought the discs and brought them home on Saturday !! The seller apparently did give them a "thorough going through" ... all bearings and blades appear healthy ... He told me and showed me where he had done work and replaced parts. He had some original tools and a full extra set of disc scrapers that came with it. Got it all for $850. I am very happy and I can't wait for the fields to dry up around here so I can take them for a proper test drive !! Thanks to those who chimed in on this thread with their opinions and advice  Mike C.  ------------- Mike C. - NW PA **Jeremiah 29:11** 65 D17 Series IV gas wfe
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 3:54pm
Between plowing and the NASCAR like discing could you have done anymore of a disservice to the field? Unless you are burying sod do you realize how much damage to the soil you are doing with a plow? How did the weeds get so big the field cultivator had issues? ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 4:11pm
Everybody has their opinion, if you don't know the other guys terrain and soil conditions, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Some guys near me haven't "plowed" in 30 years cause they have rolling hills. Other guys plow their "bottom" ground every other year or more. Gumbo bottoms is way different than sandy clay hills. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 5:40pm
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 7:05pm
| I'm on sandy gravel soils in central Indiana. Over the years we have tried it all. No tilling my ground does not work. We have went back to mold boarding and chiseling. Not only has my yields increased but my chemical bill has decreased since stopping no till.We had so many weeds that had become resistant to chemicals that tillage became the only way to address them. That's what works for us right now |
Posted By: stroketech
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 7:40pm
| Hey Hoots, I have a Series 4 17 with a 12 foot Allis disc that looks exactly like the one in your picture. I have an 8 foot piece of rail road rail on the back of it and the 17 pulls it like its an ertl toy. |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 8:55pm
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You did really good on the disc at that price , and , it looks like you bought it from the type of person we would all like to buy from ( somebody who took pride and care of their equipment ). Best of luck . |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 10:22pm
| You would really like it with the snap coupler torsion bar hitch.Ask him if it's still around somewhere. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 10:28pm
| D-17 series 4 with 16.9 x 28 duals and snap-coupler Traction booster hitch works really nice with a 13 ft 6 inch wide disc just like that. |
Posted By: LionelinKY
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 12:59am
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Mind you she's not stock but our WD45 played with our 12' AC wheel transport disc. ------------- "My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic" |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 8:50pm
It's hard to argue the science in relation to plowing, carbon loss, and organic matter and the effects of lower organic matter on crops. We have had feilds side by side one plowed one chiseled similar soil get a heavy rain the plowed portion is like pudding down to the bottom of the plowed area chiseled area much firmer. Also notice that plowed ground suffers more in droughty weather. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 1:12am
| when ya hook onto it, sink it in the ground, if the tractor wheels sit there and spin, it's to big! |
Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 3:02am
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I am sorry, I have nothing constructive to add to the topic, but the topic sentence makes me thing of these discs: here is a sign the disc is too big for your allis: 42 inch blades on 20 inch spacing... :O http://www.biggmfg.com/index.php/equipment/deep-plowing-discs" rel="nofollow - http://www.biggmfg.com/index.php/equipment/deep-plowing-discs They also make the world's widest disc, explore the website a little, it is amazing. :) ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 8:23am
I know that this one was to big for my WD45. lol
 ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 8:28am
It was a SC so I pulled it home behind the WD45 and that was the last time it hooked up to my WD45. lol
 ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: farmboy59
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2017 at 8:54am
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I just bought a 213 Allis transport disc this last summer, it measures 13,6" across. My series one D-17 with loaded 16.9-28s and one set of rear F&H weights pulls it with no problems in second High. I've since disced in corn stalks in sandy ground with it on some decent hills, and disced plowed blue clay at my house with it. I've also pulled a 210 Allis transport disc with My CA. it loves it, of course having a 1000 lbs of wheel weights on the back help a lot. ------------- 36 WC, 50 WD, 51 CA, 55 D-14, 59 D-17, 62 D-19, 73 610 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2017 at 9:07am
| A disk with dull blades will pull much easier than a sharp disk. Of course this is at the expense of penetration. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2017 at 11:09am
| needless to say thats still a nice clean looking disc for 850 dollars. looks like it will work the crap out of that tractor anyways |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2017 at 4:48pm
| I'm sure the Traction booster hitch for a disc would be a good deal but keeping things level front to rear might be difficult in fresh plowed fluffy ground. |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2017 at 7:38pm
| Dad used to pull a Kewanee model 100 I believe 13 1/2 disc with our 1960 D 17. It worked really well. A D17 is really a tough tractor. It always did more work than some of the neighbors wanted to give it credit for. Then he got his 180 diesel & it played with that disc. Bought a Kewanee model 615 15 foot heaver disc 20 inch blades. It worked but would have been better off with a 13 ft. We had the power but needed more traction. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 5:46am
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I'd gladly trade in my fully mounted for a lift one like that! You got a heck of a good deal on that one! That should pull nicely with the WD45. ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 7:03am
| Anyone else notice that the guy bought the disk and posted the picture back in 2014? LOL |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 7:21am
Yes! I wish this forum wouldn't bring old posts back to top when someone replies. Old posts like this get beat to death again. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 7:40am
This is a valid point. However, you will never reach agreement on this, because the other side of the story is some people get frustrated when the same old thing is asked over and over, why didn't they search for the question first, then reply. Just as an example.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 9:54am
Not to discriminate by age but the old timers would have a fit if something changed. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 9:57am
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I like bringing the old topic to the front if there is something new to add. Otherwise no one would ever see the new information without posting a link to the old thread. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 2:09pm
x2!
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2017 at 3:09pm
| I own a 520 Massey disc, heavy monster just under 12' wide, pulls like a lead block and works the old 180 like a plan!! |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 6:18am
See what I mean?
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 7:17am
The Agtalk site is proof the over way works great also. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 7:43am
| Sure....but on yet a 3rd site I visit, there's guys currently mentioning that they don't like agtalk for being the other way. It's a preference, with logical arguments on both sides. So you'll never get agreement, there will be a choice made and we'll live with it. I will anyway. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 9:27am
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What is the third site? I have learned if you go to google and include Agtalk in your search you can do a good job of finding stuff. I have brought up 8-10 year old posts. Folks on Agtalk certainly aren't afraid of asking the same question repeatedly but then again I would sooner ask again on here then search. Like it was mentioned over their thinks change and others gain knowledge since it was discussed last. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 9:48am
| Shoot. I have read old posts that I know I've read before and they seem vaguely familiar. And then I see something I wrote and don't even remember it. I kind of like having them come back to the front. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 9:52am
| victory allis i agree with your last post very much, because things do change and some one new my just have a differant out look or answer or found a better way of doing somthing , and iam one that dosnt take change to well |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 10:20am
The Combine Forum. Just a couple days ago, this topic was up. The Combine Forum is like this, anytime you comment, it goes to the top, so I'm the most used to that way, but I could deal with either way. It's just a choice.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 10:22am
| The only thing that bugs me a little, is I wish if somebody does dredge up an old post, they would preface it with "I know this is an old post, but...", or at least comment like they acknowledge it's old. Some it seems don't know to look at a date. You see a 4 word vaguely related question asked of a poster who hasn't visited in 6 years, now that is a bit pointless! |