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HD5 DOZER FOR RESTORATION

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62066
Printed Date: 30 Nov 2021 at 5:39pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: HD5 DOZER FOR RESTORATION
Posted By: AC Mel
Subject: HD5 DOZER FOR RESTORATION
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 4:01pm
Hi guys, thought we should post up our latest restoration project. This would be an HD5B #15138 (1952) w/ ATECO DOZER (American Tractor Equipment Corp) Model BH-HD5B #5050 and CARCO winch Model E #10291. My brother Dave and his son Kirk picked this up one week ago traveling to S.WA. from N.Ca.,appox. 1300 mi. round trip in bad weather, drove 50 miles out of the way to avoid chaining up and still saw snow at sea level from Coos Bay,Or. to Cresent City, Ca. (but that's what AC tractor collectors do for there hobby stuff).It's been sitting for some time with probably steering clutch issues. The Core family that we acquired it from are the original owners and we are hoping to get some more past history as time goes on. We have lots of parts and pieces for HD5s, but this is a perfect specimen with louvered engine covers (also the farthest we have traveled for an AC tractor) 






Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 4:11pm
Hard to imagine a intact little guy like this just sitting and rusting away quietly, good catch Mel!!


Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 5:40pm
Love the truck and trailer, love the wheel loader, love the HD5. Tracks look really good, is it a runner? Nice score, Trev.


Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 5:46pm
Tracks look in good shape. Looked nice and tight when unloading. Is the ROPS manufactured or is that a home made setup. What engine does this one have?

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Yea, I can fix that.....


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 5:59pm
ROPS ? brush guard would be what this would be called. All the mount points are on thin metal areas of machine. 2-71 is the engine used stock. have seen these machines with ford flathead and other such engines, but a 2-71 will do a lot of work and pinch fuel.

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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.


Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 6:45pm
ROPS  Roll Over Protection System

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Yea, I can fix that.....


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2012 at 7:33pm
Thank, for the nice comments guys. The engine was still running when it was parked for ,we think a steering clutch problem, but it's been awhile. The truck is one of our precast septic tank delivery trucks (you know are day job) and it's more fun draggin ACs around than setting septic tanks (doesn't pay as well though). As Coke said it still has the original 271 Detroit. The canopy or ROPS as it appears were all after market or home made back then. It was up to the dealers to do that. When you bought an HD5 new it was just a tractor unless it was the loader version. The blades were all aftermarket also. AC used Carco, Baker, Garwood and ATECO to name a few.


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2012 at 9:31am
Why I said ROPS ? is back then there was no such thing - brush guard or sun roof - yes but that pipe on the machine is all anchored on sheet steel not to the machine frame or solid structure. 
 ROPS needs to be designed to support the weight of the machine - and tested and certified. 
 Tracto-Motive made the loader version the G series loader for AC -until AC bought them out . All the other attachments were certified by AC to be used on the machine but not supplied by AC - so configuration of the dozers was a mix of companies supplying different designs from cable units to hydraulic. 


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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.


Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2012 at 4:27pm
Does anyone have a set of sprocket and idler guards for an HD-5B? 


Posted By: David Gantt N.C.
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2012 at 8:17pm
great fine, hope to see it after you finish the restore, thanks for sharing


Posted By: AC-12G
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2012 at 1:30pm
HI MEL Smile , JUST SIGNED THE AC FORM TO CHAT W/ YOU. GUESS I`M A OLE QUALIFIED AC JUNKEE.... LIL 5 IS ALL DRESSED UP FOR  PACIFIC NO.WEST  LOGGING COUNTRY....IF ONLY THE NOISY LIL BUG-ER COULD TELL IT`S  PAST .  IT IS A LIL SWEET HEART FOR DAM SURE..... AS I THINK BACK ON YOUR GETTING THE LIL 5 ...I SHOULD HAVE LOADED MY PICK UP W/ 12G MISC. & MET YOU AT I-5 & EXIT 88 (HWY 12 )..... MEL, ALSO STILL KEEP IN TOUCH BY E-MAIL.  JERRY K


Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2012 at 3:29pm
What a find! Looks like they had just replaced the rails and sprockets when they parked it. 


Posted By: mrkc
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2012 at 8:21pm
The HD5 was purchased by my grandfather, Frank Core, in the late 1940s (I think). They used it to finish logging a bunch of old growth fir on his farm near Mossyrock, WA. The timber had been cut about 10 years earlier but hadn't been bucked into logs because the deal with the logger went haywire.
They bought the HD5 at McKinnel Tractor in Chehalis, Washington.  As far as I know, it was equipped as you see it now.  
My father, Calvin Core, learned to operate it while he was in high school and went on to become a professional cat skinner (among other things) running D8s and similar sized Terex dozers at the Centralia steam plant.
I didn't run it much when I was growning up. After dad died in 1994, I used it enough to realize I wasn't very good with a dozer and didn't have the patience to learn.  I would much rather run farm tractors, something I have many hours of experience doing.  
Sometime around 1997, my mom's second husband was using it and the steering clutches on one side failed. It had to be towed back with the 1959 JD 430 tractor we had on the farm.  It ran when it was parked and had just had the top end rebuilt.
I will ask my dad's two sisters if they remember any more details about when it was purchased or how it was equipped.
I'm pleased that Mel and Dave now have it and that it will be repaired, and enjoyed.  My dad and grandfather really liked it and it was difficult to see it sit in disrepair.  It just wasn't cost effective to pay a mechanic to get it fixed.  By the way, the same thing happened with the '59 JD 430 tractor.  I now have a small diesel 4X4 tractor and it is far better for what I need.


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 5:34pm
just got a ts-5/hd-5 crawler bucket dozer!! I need transmission! any one know where I can get one!! put a motor in it!! 271 GM/ Detroit. like to get this tranny redone or get another used for old girl !! any help! thxs!! pm me treedog2@yahoo.com with any info!!Clap


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 5:55pm
I have a complet transmission for HD5 but you better removed yours maybe you just need a gear or a bearing and am 'T shipping heavy parts because cust to much for heavy parts


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 10:54pm
FYI,we probably have a HD5 transmission we could part with, but I agree with Hector, what do you really need?  There's a whole bunch of moving parts to what may be a problem or not.

  Also I'm glad you were able to find this old post. I can't find a lot of my old posts, I guess they went to AC cyberspace


Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 11:14pm
Mel, have you finished that HD5?  Seems like I remember seeing pictures of it but then again, you guys have been working on several machines in the last few years.

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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant


Posted By: ACcrazy
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2016 at 8:30am
John, If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure this is it. Their restored HD6 just behind it.

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/wheelinthesky/media/loggingconetc023_zps70a7f491.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2016 at 3:08pm
Sure looks nice, great job


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2016 at 5:50pm
dang those look nice!!! got another tranny!! the lady I got mine from had one there he husband had it for this HD-5!! gears and all were good . replace 1 bearing ! no teeth broke off!! thxs! guys!!


Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2016 at 11:52pm
Hard to believe it's the same machine!  What a great restoration, I'm sure the Cole family is happy they let you have the machine.

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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 12:42am
hey guys got trouble with my hd-5 ! it want turn right when I pull the stick!! I also apply the rite brake at same time!! but it want turn!!! any suggestions!! thxs


Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 9:03am
With the motor running master clutch engaged transmission in gear disengage both steering clutches. Note the direction it turns, the opposite steering clutch is locked up. If it goes straight both are locked up. If it stops both steering clutches are disengaging properly.


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 2:31pm
Dozer not sure but I think the rite side is not disgaging when I pull back on stick just goes strait!! how can I get it freed!! been siting for a few yrs!!! thxs!!


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 4:19pm
You need to make sure of adjustments,and linkages are free first.


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 11:38am
WELL NOW I HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE!!! LOL!! IAM IN NEED OF A RITE FRONT IDLER WITH BEARINGS AND SHAFT AND ALL TOGETHER!!! ANY BODY HAVE ANY THAT IS IN GOOD SHAPE! THXS FOR HD-5G


Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 12:15pm
I have (4) Allis crawlers. They are great machines, but they need to be used, greased and kept inside. Most of these machines were parked for a reason. The front idler you mentioned is the why. The stuck clutches are the result of the machine exposed to the elements. Good luck.

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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD6E, HD11B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 620, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors.


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 9:08am
Mel you wouldn't by chance have a front idler laying around !!! Hd-5g need one !!thxs or anyone else!!


Posted By: treedog62
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 7:13pm
which idlers will interchange with the HD-5 ?


Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 9:29pm
Treegog: You may find an idler at General Gear in Boise, ID or Norcon in Spokane.

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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD6E, HD11B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 620, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors.


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 11:06pm


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 11:10pm
Ok wrong button, Treedog I probably do have a good used idler in the "donor tractor" section, but the freight would be costlly, there has to be something closer to you.


Posted By: Wes1987
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 11:06am
I have an hd5 that I'm looking to sell it runs great but transmission is cracked.


Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

Why I said ROPS ? is back then there was no such thing - brush guard or sun roof - yes but that pipe on the machine is all anchored on sheet steel not to the machine frame or solid structure. 
 ROPS needs to be designed to support the weight of the machine - and tested and certified. 
 Tracto-Motive made the loader version the G series loader for AC -until AC bought them out . All the other attachments were certified by AC to be used on the machine but not supplied by AC - so configuration of the dozers was a mix of companies supplying different designs from cable units to hydraulic. 



Ya, I have looked more than once at putting a true ROPS on one of these, but there is just no practical place to put one, at least not w/o a whole lot of engineering. Like Coke says, just about all you will see is 'pipe on sheetmetal'...good for a parasol but not much else

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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27


Posted By: Leop
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

Why I said ROPS ? is back then there was no such thing - brush guard or sun roof - yes but that pipe on the machine is all anchored on sheet steel not to the machine frame or solid structure. 
 ROPS needs to be designed to support the weight of the machine - and tested and certified. 
 Tracto-Motive made the loader version the G series loader for AC -until AC bought them out . All the other attachments were certified by AC to be used on the machine but not supplied by AC - so configuration of the dozers was a mix of companies supplying different designs from cable units to hydraulic. 



Ya, I have looked more than once at putting a true ROPS on one of these, but there is just no practical place to put one, at least not w/o a whole lot of engineering. Like Coke says, just about all you will see is 'pipe on sheetmetal'...good for a parasol but not much else


A while back i asked about a ROPS here, and via the help I recieved and lots of my own research I discovered that Allis Chalmers did offer a factory ROPS for the HD6G. That was great news because it meant that it was an actual ROPS not a brush guard. Not a small feat of engineering I might add given the 13K lbs of that tractor.

I did locate a few after much much looking but they were too far away to be cost effective. However they may be closer to you. Assuming the same cage was offered for the HD5 I think thats a great solution.

What I am currently doing is trying to have one made locally that duplicates the construction and mounting points of the factory unit.

Search Leop and ROPs to find that post.


Posted By: Leop
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 7:27pm
BTW, those first two tractors look incredible. I have restored lots of cars to that level, but being able to do it with such huge and heavy components is just pure art work and rigging engineering combined.

It sure doesn't fit into a blasting booth. Even if it did how many tons of walnut shells or baking soda would it take to clean her up? A Ton or so?

Please consider doing a write up someday on how one goes about getting such results.


Posted By: Leop
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 8:05pm
Just a note about that crack. I have been in a similar situation on a 1900's steam locomotive and 1948 Kenworth truck. Here are the two ideas I came up with.

When the crack is resonable can use a process called lock-n-stitch, so named by the manufacturer that invented it. I was very skeptical but when I tried it, it actualy worked! Here is a link to a two part video showing how it works.

https://youtu.be/Pq0wfU4ZaKk" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/Pq0wfU4ZaKk

I repaired a crack in a water passage of an engine block due to freezing. Engine was fully dressed and still in the truck. Neven seen a leak! This may also work for structural cracks as well. Contact manufacturer to inquire.

The second method worked for parts that were structuraly damaged. It was plain good old fashioned brazing. I was sckeptical here as well. They say brazing has a higher psi tensil strength than cast iron, and i think even cast steel. The person that convinced me of this is a very knowledgeable machinist on YouTube, Keith Fenner. Just search "keith fenner brazing" in the YouTube's search bar and see all his examples. He also explains why Nickel rod and other methods don't work well.

The only issue was preheating the huge casting My solution was to take it to a powder coating shop with a large oven.I the casting very slowly heated up to 500F. Then a forklift lifted the casting out and two portable welders were standing ready to weld it. After it was brazed (20 min or so) and ground clean back into the oven it went to cool off slowly. The shop even agreed to powder coat it for me before it went back in the oven.

Cost was regular powdercoat cost + 20min extra oven time cost + the cost of the portable weders. They hot boiled it for me and then walnut shell blasted it for (I paid extra for wallnuts over sand to avoid inadvertently introducing sand into the mechanism that went inside the casting) as well. That powder coat sure made it easy to clean the part after re-instalation onto the greasy grimy locomotive.

Just some thoughts that might help you. Note, both outside vendors were super helpfull after I explaind that I was trying to save somthing historically important, so i would mention that too.

No relation or compensation from any vendor or YouTube'er mentioned above.

Cheers,

Leo




Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2019 at 3:16am
Mel - watch out!

"Sacramento County Says It's Illegal to Work on Your Own Car in Your Own Garage"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/sacramento-county-says-its-illegal-to-work-on-your-own-car-in-your-own-garage/ar-AADOizD" rel="nofollow - https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/sacramento-county-says-its-illegal-to-work-on-your-own-car-in-your-own-garage/ar-AADOizD

(Via Small Dead Animals)


Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 6:24pm
Bringing it back to go with new post



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