Wd 45 help!!!!
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57296
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Topic: Wd 45 help!!!!
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Subject: Wd 45 help!!!!
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 8:35am
| Guys I need to really get some plowing done and my tractor is just going downhill fast!! I can't get it to run right it seems like its miss firing real bad I replaced all the plugs and it ran good but only for a day then it's back to runninng like complete crap! What do I need to do to get its going good can someone help me fix the timing? Anything thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 8:38am
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Change the wires, cap, rotor and condenser. ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 9:28am
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I second that. If it's missing, changing plugs may have an impact, but more likely that some other component of the ignition system is at primary fault. The wires may be old, dry, and tired, and leaking... but even more likely, the cap may have carbon tracks that the spark energy is following to ground, rather than the plug gap. Even more likely that the contact points are pitted, contact spring soft and weak, and condenser dried out. The point cam may be well-worn, and the distributor shaft may be sloppy in the bushing. You may even have a coil that's developing an internal short, or a coil power wire that's corroded internally and failing. A proper 'tune up', would be to pull it all off, replace all the parts from the plugs to the distributor shaft, and check that distributor shaft to make sure it doesn't flop around... make sure the advance weights in the base of the distributor are functioning properly, and that you don't have a loose screw in the breaker plate, then reassemble, set the point gap, then adjust timing per spec, it should be much happier. Can you describe it's running attitude in greater detail? does it miss more when under load, or at higher speed an lighter load? ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 9:31am
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And if that doesn't fixit, maybe look for dirt or rust in the fuel system. Had that happen in my 49 WD under load. ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 10:46am
| It has a brand new distributor , new internals , new plugs , new woring, I don't know what else. It sounds like a John Deere 2 cylinder it's horrible and barely runs I think she may be dead.. |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 10:51am
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Old tractors do not like today's gas. I'm haveing the same problems with several of mine. Put in fresh gas and they run fine for a while, let them sit for a month and I have the problem. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: AlVee
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 10:57am
| I would pull the plugs again and make sure they all look good I have seen were they get carbon chunks wedged in the plug after a good tune up if they all look good then yes check the fuel system also make sure you didn't loose an intake manifold gasket that will make them run bad also. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 10:57am
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I'd try fresh gas first then maybe a new coil as you have replaced everything else. If after all this and it still runs poorly then It may be time to do a compression test or look for a sticking valve. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 11:00am
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I have put new Champian plugs in that only lasted a day or two. I switched to autolights.
You realy need to do some basic trouble shooting to find the problem. Just don't assume that becouse the parts are new thay are good. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 11:13am
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Boy, Dave hit it right on the head there... brand new stuff, right out of the box, worse than the 20-year old parts I'd taken out. Particularly condensers and points. I'll second the fuel system comment, with particular attention to the passageway from the tank into the drain petcock, and also the catch screen located in the thread-in fitting on the side of the carb body... And finally... drain ALL the fuel, and put in new fuel... preferably, as late in the fall as you can (winter formulations). Always remember that ethanol does not naturally MIX with gasoline- it's just 'in suspension', and will settle. It is also hygroscopic... will absorb moisture. Take a glass pickle jar, and pour in a quart of modern gasoline, cap it, and put it on a shelf for two months, and you'll see layers appear... water on the bottom, supersaturated ethanol above that, then straight ethanol, then gasoline. Guess which part goes to the carbeurator first... If it sounds like a two cyl, then lift a plug wire and see if the engine speed changes. If it does, put it back, and move to the next. When it doesn't change, THAT is the BAD cylinder. If you have TWO bad cyls, is it possible that the wires are reversed? these old gals run incredibly well on just two... my 'oily B' starts and runs great with two hitting, and the other two belching oil... gotta wear an old hat, because it RAINS on me every time I move it. (needs sleeves, pistons, and rings BAD). ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 6:05pm
| wd45 - Since you have done so much, I think you need to trouble shoot and determine the problem. 1st - take a screwdriver and ground out one plug at a time to determine which cylinder is missing or if its a random miss. If its random it could be electrical or fuel. Then go to the next next step. Random could go either way. Electrical could be condenser or a intermittent short or a coil going bad. You might also dress the points as they might have oxidized. Next would be to check the fuel system. I could go on, but you get the idea. Just throwing parts at it is not the most cost effective procedure to follow. |
Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 6:27pm
| I had a loose wire on the distrubutor that came from the coil...if I remember right, not the big wire that goes to the middle of the dist. cap, but the small wire was loose...it missed alot and even died...at times..finally figured it out. |
Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 6:32pm
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Where ate you at maybe a forum member is close that could help you.
------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 8:46pm
| Another possibility if all else fails...shoot some carburetor cleaner around the manifold intake ports while the tractor is running. It it smooths out, you may have a bad gasket and/or eroded manafold or head. |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 8:56pm
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check manifold gaskets, and make sure you have a good battery (if you have a distributor not a magneto)....two things that have caused similar problems for me but were the last things I checked
------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 9:51pm
|
Thnk you guys so much !! I'm gonna give it a Ll a try tomorrow! |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 5:24pm
| Well I tried everything today guys different coil, cleaned the carb, put in new fuel, tried a different sediment bowl, checked the wires , i don't know what else to do I give up on her |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 5:41pm
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Justin did you check the manifold gaskets? ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: dannyraddatz
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 5:47pm
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Justin, One member asked if some one close could help you? Well your profile does not give city or state where you live. Danny
------------- Danny Raddatz |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 7:35pm
| dont know if you cked.for it but,ck.the coil where the primary wire plugs into it.ck.the wire on the dist.(coil wire) if you have any green powdery formatoin.you have a built in resistor in that circut.and you get some erratic symptons... |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 7:38pm
| lso might add,i use the dow corning moisture inhibitor in each plug wire and the coil wire.same stuff we used it on aircraft plugs..... |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 7:54pm
Well, if you tried everything, then you would have found the problem and fixed it. It sounds more like you solved it the easiest way known to man: Giving up. The method that seems to work best with this group, is to list all suggestions, and then go through, one suggestion at a time, and check as suggested, test accordingly, and report the results... even those things you noticed, but thought insignificant... of each test. Then read the posts we render in concert with your observations. Typically, two to three goin's round, and you'll have the problem licked. If you're satisfied to take the easy road, just post photos, price, and location, someone will relieve you of your troubles, spend five minutes fixing it, and drive it away. I would venture a good bet that over 70% of the fellows here have breathed life into a hopeless wreck, and turned it into something solid, reliable, and useful in under two days... and at least a third of those guys did it to engines that wouldn't even TURN when they got 'em. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Allis-chalmers wd45 wrote:Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 9:00pm
|
Justin don't give up. Hang in there man. This is a learning experience. When you get her fixed you will be a better mechanic. This is a learning curve. ------------- It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa, |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 9:44pm
| Guys Im from northern nj, and it has a new manifold and gaskets I don't think they would be bad? I won't give up its just to addicting to keep trying! Tomorrow I'll try the other suggestions and see could the timing possible be off some? |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 9:56pm
| I sold a guy a new manifold for a WD45 once,he put it on and said that the tractor wouldn't run right.He didn't put in the 1/8 inch pipe plug in the intake side of the new manifold.He was right,it ran like crap until you plugged that hole. |
Posted By: DaveCinIN
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 9:57pm
| Did you pull the valve cover and make sure everything is okay under there? Rockers and pushrods OK? Proper clearance? |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 10:00pm
|
I will check that tomorrow too! And I didn't check under there I'm not sure how to check that ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 10:09pm
That's the right way to look at it! Don't let it win; You can and will get her running like a top again.
 Now I'm thinking after you spayed around the intake manifold then I'd run a compression test next then I'd run a vacuum test before more parts are installed.
I learned years ago I will not get payed for parts that I put on that the tractor did not need them. lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 10:18pm
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One other thing to try...unless I missed it that someone else suggested it...this is very fast and simple to do. Take the aircleaner oil cup off (make sure you are in a clean enviornment) and try running the engine up with out that on, in case you have a plugged air inlet...ck while you have it off to see that there is nothing plugging anywhere. ------------- It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa, |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2012 at 10:20pm
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AC45, Have you checked which plugs are not firing the engine? find those two offenders and switch plug wires... Might be your looking at rotation on distributer backwards... If all the things these fellows have suggested doesn't work, (which would get a normal tractor back to running) remove all the plugs and turn engine to top dead center on compression stroke and then blow air into spark plug hole... keep fingers from fan and such and listen if you hear nothing, then turn engine to TDC on # 2 cyl. do the same the to number 4 cyl and finally do number 3 cylinder. No air noise on all cylinders would be great... air coming out exhaust is burnt / warpped/ bad ex valve. If you hear air coming out intake pipe .. bad intake valve.. and if you hear air coming out of the adjoining cylinder, bad head gasket. Or air out radiator cap still bad head gasket. Had one tractor that the valve train adjusting screw opened up valve and didn't run right... another had bad intake manifold gasket and it didn't run right on two cylinders... had one with burnt chunk out of ex valve and it 'whopped' along. Had one that had a bad head gasket and it amazed me it ran as good as it did.leaked between #2&3 cyl and into radiator...
Make sure you have right point gap. should look like about the thinkness of a match book cover.
When checking gas flow, make sure you run a soup can full through the line / drain plug to make sure you have full flow... and make sure your carb settings are good and the jets are clean.
Got 190 gas that starts to be weak when inline car filter starts plugging on gas line so I blow it backwards and get rid of dirt and rust and whatever else that is in there.
Tell the fellows what town your close to in northern NJ. Maybe there is somebody close that can help. ... Good Luck.
|
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 7:09am
Thanks guys wel see what happens today! You guys are the best!  ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 4:27pm
|
Well I checked the manifold gaskets and they didn't leak so I'm convinced its maybe a head gasket or something else I checked the timing and fiddled with the plugs but still was the same . All this happened after I got the new distributor iforgot the put it back to where the old one was a d after that's its just been running like this. Good news is I'm starting the tear down and ordering the top end kit for my birthday and starting to get other stuff and fixing her up soon! ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 7:02pm
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Did you ever try to short out one plug at a time to see which ones are firing and which ones aren't? If you didn't do this, your wasting your time and money buying more stuff to put on the engine. If this all started after putting in the new distributor, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you have 2 plug wires switched around. Just for the heck of it, switch number 2 and number 3 wires around and see what happens. If it don't start put them back and switch 1 and 4 around. It's a real cheap experiment that could save you a lot of time and trouble. "I'm convinced its maybe a head gasket or something else" This is where you get in trouble finding a problem, being convinced you did everything right with the tune up and plug wires. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 7:27pm
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I'll second Charlie's note: Being convinced of something, particularly when having nothing to validate the conclusion, results in much wasted time and money. I'll go back to the firstish post, where you noted that you changed the plugs, and it ran fine for a while, then it didn't run well... That is NOT a symptom commonly attributed to a bad head gasket. It is a symptom most common to fuel and ignition problems... particularly a bad point spring or condenser, bad coil, or plugged fuel strainer, jet, damaged air jet, sticking float valve, or nasty fuel. The plugged oil-bath air cleaner is a good suggestion too... although it usually makes it run like the choke is permanently pulled halfway out... Before yanking the head, why not go for the leakdown test... as IT will reveal, to substantial accuracy, not only a problem with head/gasket issues, it will also identify valve, piston ring, liner, and liner seal problems. And I'll second the other previous note- if you identify your locality with a little more precision, perhaps one of the other Poconos area enthusiasts will offer to swing by with an AC stethoscope and give it a fresh set of eyes. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:24pm
|
Well here's the thing I already need a rebuild because it smokes like crazy. Like no other. And my head gasket did develope a small leak in the front of the engine . How do I ground out each plug too? And I will switch the plug wires tomorrow and let you guys know! Thanks again you guys truly are the best info and help around! ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:28pm
| 1-2-4-3 , clockwise rotation |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:35pm
If the wires have good caps on the plugs and you trust them to be good, just start it up and pull one wire at a time to find out which cylinders are working. Don't run it without letting the spark go to ground though or you could burn a track in the cap that will steal your spark. In the old days, when there weren't caps on the plug end of the wire, you just stuck a screwdriver on the block and lean it into the top of the plug.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:47pm
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Okay great I will try tomorrow!!! ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:55pm
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I'd venture to say that a couple of those new spark plugs are oil fouled. That's why it ran fine when you first replaced them. I'd pull the plugs and check them again. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2012 at 9:56pm
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Stan might have it there too. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 6:56am
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But then won't it keep fouling them? ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 7:03am
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If they are fouled again, it's because of the excess oil going past worn out rings and valve stem seals/guides. You can try running hotter spark plugs as a temp. fix maybe but the solution is an engine rebuild. Again that's if they are being oil fouled. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: firephight
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 9:47am
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Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 1:51pm
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Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 7:17am
Well I found the problem! Tore her all apart yesterday and took my head of to find that the #1 piston. Had a pencil eraser sized hole burnt through it running along the side of the sleeve going down so that's why it was miss firing ! Time for a rebuild !  ------------- 1946 "C" 1956 "WD45" 1965 "D17" Series IV 1979 185 factory ROPS deutz allis 385 planter |