Narrow Front Question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53857
Printed Date: 11 Sep 2025 at 11:00am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Narrow Front Question
Posted By: PlayGun
Subject: Narrow Front Question
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 4:56pm
| Don't know much about narrow front (tryke) style tractors. We had a 49 JD narrow front on the far growing up and dad would never let me drive it, I had to drive all the newer Fords. Are those stable tractors? Can a man farm gentle rolling hills with them? Looking at them I would guess they are for flat land. |
Replies:
Posted By: FloydKS
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 5:06pm
| There will be some more "intelligent" answers but you should have no problems.. You do say gentle are the hills. the width of the back tires determines roll over much more than the narrow front, I have heard...even the wide front tractors have some 'wiggle room' and do not run flat all the time... ... but I am from flat Kansas so will let others give you more details. |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 5:17pm
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You should have wide front for loader work. But i you keep enough weight on the back to keep the back tires on the ground you will be fine. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 5:51pm
| Thanks again guys, I am as you know looking to buy a tractor for baling hay, and I would hate to pass up a deal just cause it's a 3 wheeler. |
Posted By: podunkpuller
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 5:57pm
I hay some pretty steep "gently rolling hills" My mowwing tractor is a D-17 narrow front. Like Floyd said, I set my rears fairly wide and it has a full set of wheel weights on the rears. I always have the mower on the high side of the hill. The problem with the wide front on steep grades is the false sence of security. If you get in trouble its the back end that will come over on you, the front is going to rock or pivot you past the point of no return. If you have a bad grade I've had good results with going up and down at a 45 angle to the grade. Know your field and avoid the holes on the low side tire and the rocks and humps on the high side. If you don't feel comfotable then by all means, trim it with a weed wacker! This old tractor, weekend farmer thing is suposed to be fun not life threatning. Go slow get a feel for it and make sure both brakes work well, this will get you out of a tight spot. I try to head down hill if it gets a little to ustable for my liking. The last thing is try to do this without the wife watching, they tend to get a little  ------------- 310, 2 B's, C, 2 WC's, 2 WD's, WD-45,D-14, D-17 gas, D-17 d IV, 190 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 6:06pm
| I've cut slopes with a D-14 NFE, that turn your b-hole into an octopus beak! Never came close to rolling it. That being said, an unexpected ground hog mound, will cause tightening of sphincter muscles! Trick is not to panic, and not to cut short slopes, next to water! |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 6:23pm
| Thanks DIY Dave I spit diet pepsi all over my screen lol. Playgun I absolutely have had my wd and 17 III and c [all nfe] on very steep hills and although I have never rolled one I have excercised those s muscles Dave speaks about. But then again those muscles have been exercised on all my wfe too! |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 6:27pm
| Thanks again guys, I may add the WD and WD 45 to my list of lookin in too's. Can a man add a nice seat to those tractors that has a back on it. I have had a C5 C6 spinal fusion and need that support. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 9:49pm
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As others have said its the back not the front.Used to spray weeds with a JD A narrow front with a 55 gallon barrel on each side of engine about a foot off the ground used to go on some very steppe pastures and never tipped it .But am not nearly as brave(stupid) as I used to be.A baler is one of the more dangerous things on steppe ground,the plunger give a little extra push ever time it makes a stroke. But also we make 16x23 bales with 3 strings so the baler is a bit heavier.Much better to have to much rather than just almost enough tractor for the job. Ray |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 10:08pm
| Right on thanks guys. I think i have it narrowed down to a D-17 or the 170. I am also looking at some 165 Massey Ferg's but I am going to try to get an AC. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 6:10am
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All good choices. A WD is a bit hard on a bad back. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jim Lindemood
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 7:00am
| Caution is always the word when using equipment - hill of flat; narrow front or wide front. Things happen really fast even tho you feel you are moving relatively slow. Fellow down the road just rolled a big Kabota with new JD round baler --- dropped his bale on hill top and went down to bale the last windrow -in a hurry , a little fast and turned to the windrow -- baler rolled and took tractor with it. Fellow was lucky and escaped. Always be alert to what is going on around you and use you head -- everybody. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 7:39am
Not picking on the Deere the same would be true for, say a WC with hand brakes, but I doubt the narrow front was the only reason your dad kept you off the old Deere. For a young inexperienced operator I would have kept you on the newer tractor too. For a lot of us that wasn't an option and there are lots of funny (at least now) stories about interaction with fences and other objects with weak brakes or "forgotten" hand clutches. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
PlayGun wrote:Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 8:53am
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One has to remember that Allis Chalmers tractors I sold had the drop down final drives on the rear - with the exception of the G. That in effect, lowered the center of gravity. In fact, my father sold narrow fronts just about all the time. I never saw a wide front WC till I got on this site. You have to exercise a good deal of caution when dealing with any farm equipment. It is made to cut chop disk or plow and has the power with a governor to give more if needed. Watch especially when a front loader is attached. The center of gravity goes up with the loader and hitting a small chuck hole can roll you. Two of our best customers were killed on Loader tractors. In fact, if you would have asked me to pick those who would be most susceptible to a farm equipment accident they would not have been in my thoughts. Do be careful out there. They don't make Allis Chalmers any more so every Allis Chalmers enthusiast is very important. Good Luck! Bill Long |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 10:30am
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I'll second Bill's note about the importance of enthusiasts. The physics behind wide vs. narrow front tractors pivots on (oh, bad pun) something called 'roll center'. On a wide-front tractor, there's a pivot that the axle allows the rear end of the tractor to 'roll' on... at least, up to a certain limit. Once you hit that limit, the axle stops swinging, and then, the tractor must 'lift' or 'roll' upon the next axle support point... which is... the wheel located far out on the end of the axle. On a narrow-front tractor, there is no front pivot... the 'roll' of the tractor occurs on a point where the tires contact the ground. Draw a triangle, where one corner exists at each contact point... one at each rear wheel, and one at the point where the front wheels of a NF contact the ground. Now, locate the center of gravity of the tractor... and draw an X on the drawing where the center of gravity is located. Imagine that the center-of gravity point is ABOVE the paper... because, in real life, the tractor's CG is usually around where the transmission is located... well above the ground. Now, place an imaginary plumb-bob on the imaginary point, so that the imaginary bob point touches the paper. It will point to your 'x' on the paper. Now, tilt the paper, until the imaginary plumb-bob swings OUTSIDE of the triangle. Now, you have a rollover. The propensity for a roll starts with some event, which as has already been noted above, could be anything simple, but there's a set of factors, and all are involved. In ALL cases, what's happened, is that the tractor's center-of-gravity has extended OUTSIDE of the support triangle. Now, let's try the same thing with a wide front tractor: Imagine two tire contact points, AND the front axle pivot point. KEEP IN MIND... the front axle pivot point is substantially ABOVE the ground. That means your plumb-bob LENGTH will be shorter. Try tilting the triangle, and you'll find that the plumb-bob is so short, that it takes quite a bit more angle, before that plumb-bob swings outside the support triangle. BUT... even though it eventually does go outside the triangle, that means the tractor starts to tilt. BUT... the axle eventually reaches it's stop limit, and then something interesting happens... The triangle changes radically. It now consists of the rear wheels, and the DOWNHILL SIDE of the front wheel. When this happens, the plumb-bob remains INSIDE the 'NEW' triangle... hence, it takes much more for the tractor to continue a roll. WHY does adding wheel weights change stability? --Because, by adding wheel weights, you move the tractor's center-of-gravity towards the rear... and slightly lower. WHY does spreading out the tires change stability? --Because spreading the tires, spreads out the WIDTH of the triangle. WHAT About adding fluid? --Adding fluid to rear tires will do the same as adding iron weights, with the exception that adding fluid only to HALF the tires, will force the center-of-gravity even lower, because you're NOT putting weight ABOVE the CG. What about additional ballast? --Adding additional ballast BELOW the tractor's CG, will drive the CG lower... hence, making the imaginary plumb-bob line SHORTER, hence, increasing stability. Adding additional ballast higher, drives it higher, making it more unstable. The note about flipping over backwards... this happens when the imaginary plumb-bob is too close to the rear of the tractor... like climbing a grade... and a little too much torque on the axles does the rest. It's all about the triangle. But that being the case, I still wouldn't turn down a tractor based on it having an inappropriate frontend... changing the frontend is only two jackstands and a couple wrenches away. |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 11:36am
| Wow he went all einstein on me, great info btw. |
Posted By: Allis-chalmers wd45
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 2:31pm
Impressive explanation! 
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